in the passage from the pdf which i’ve c&p’d below, distiller’s grains are referred to as “slop”. I wasn’t alive in the early 1800′s, so I can’t tell you what distiller’s grains looked like back then, however, I can tell you that none of the byproduct feeds fed today can be described as “slop”. the distiller’s grains look like grain. not to mention, we’re not living in the early 1800′s. Not even the 1900′s. This is the 21st century. technology is everywhere, including in agriculture.

One effort brought the cows back to the city, but not to graze on the village green. Beginning in the 1820s or 1830s, distillery owners created a market for the grain mash left from the distilling process by selling it as cattle feed. Farmers could rent stalls at the distillery and feed their cows this slop at minimal cost. Although cows gave more milk on this high-calorie diet, it was of poor quality because the animals got no exercise and lived in filthy conditions. The thin blue “swill” milk was often doctored with additives, such as starch, plaster, chalk, eggs or annatto (a dye derived from the seed of a tropical plant), to give it a more attractive color. Although other cities also had swill dairies, nowhere was the infamous beverage more prevalent than in New York.ii
from:
Selitzer, Ralph. The Dairy Industry in America. New York: Dairy & Ice Cream Field and Books for Industry, 1976.
.-= tonya´s last blog ..rcwant2be: hmmm…the dimmable cfl’s i got don’t work well. prolly need to upgrade the dimmer switch. will ask landlords. i’m now all cfl! =-.

I, like you, am highly logical and respect facts, not emotion (although emotion certainly has its place — but it does not belong in a debate).

(To repeat) I also highly recommend that you read “The Omnivore’s Dilemma” by Michael Pollan.

There is one other source of information you might want to review. Download this powerpoint:

http://www.realmilk.com/ppt/index.html

I’d quote from it but I just upgraded to Snow Leopard on my Mac and PowerPoint is giving me trouble (freezes and quits).

That powerpoint, along with Michael Pollan’s book and Dr. Schmid’s book are what convinced me to switch my family to raw milk. I could not deny the facts in those 3 documents (again, all very well-sourced.)
.-= CHEESESLAVE´s last blog ..Fast Food Dinner =-.

Tonya, I posted that PDF for you because you said you didn’t “put much stock” in the book about the history of milk by Dr. Ron Schmid. This PDF covers the part about the swill milk dairies, the ones feeding the cows whiskey mash, in the 1700-1800s. I figured it might be a shortcut for you, instead of having to read the whole book.

I don’t understand how you can discount information based on “tone”. Are you referring to the “tone” of that PDF? In other words, the tone of the author’s writing? If so, that is subjective and not relevant to a logical argument.

I can write “2 + 2 = 4″ very matter of factly, or I can write it in a tone that you might perceive to be offensive. For example, I could write, “Anyone who doesn’t know 2 + 2 = 4 is stupid.”

Regardless of how one writes it or what tone they use, 2 + 2 still equals 4.

So I’m not sure what tone has to do with anything. Something is either true or it isn’t.

If you go back and look at that PDF, it’s very well-sourced. (As is Dr. Schmid’s book, as is Michael Pollan’s book, and his articles.) That 13-page PDF has 5 full pages of sources.

If you think the article I posted and the sources the author credited are invalid, that’s another matter. In that case, what is it about them that makes them invalid? Can you prove that the author is wrong? Based on what other sources?

As far as your claim that “Others self-publish to push their personal agendas,” you seem to be suggesting that the author of that PDF has a personal agenda to push, and therefore you have invalidated it.

Again, not logical. Whether the author has an agenda or not is immaterial. Either her statements are true or they are not. Her personal motivation is beside the point. If her argument is well constructed and based on solid facts, then we must come to the conclusion that her argument is valid.
.-= CHEESESLAVE´s last blog ..Fast Food Dinner =-.

BTW, I just read the below exchange. I agree that we can agree to disagree respectfully, especially as Christian sisters!

Kelly
.-= Kelly the Kitchen Kop´s last blog ..Real Food Wednesday 9/30/09 =-.

I’m a wannabe academic, and I respect Tonya’s respect of FACT. I want to make sure I’m grounded in fact, especially when I’m spending $6/gallon on the darn milk!

When it all comes down to it, we all have to go with our guts, both literally and figuratively. Find the info, test out something for yourself, and if you are healthier because of it and feel at peace with the decision, then you’ve made the right one. If you don’t have peace, you pray about it and try to find the right change to make.

I really like both you gals — so let’s banter a little about cows, grass, and academic articles without jabbing at anything with feelings, all right?

T – glad you’re feeling better!!

In His Grip (tightly!),
Katie

I’m feeling JUST FINE after my flu shot & my BACK & BOTTOM HURT because my sacroiliac joint was misaligned for which I sought ALTERNATIVE therapy, a chiropractor, after declining my pcp’s instructions to take up to 1800 mg of ibuprofen a day for a week.

I am convinced by SCIENTIFIC FACT. Numbers don’t lie. Anyone can publish a book. Some people are lucky enough to get paid a little bit of money for it. Others self-publish to push their personal agendas. That’s made blatantly obvious by the tone of the pdf cheeseslave posted above. The further you stray from scientific fact, the bigger the snowball becomes, until misinformation is being believed as propagandic truth. I spent 4 years of my life & an estimated $50k dollars studying animal science not to mention most of my life until that point living & working on my family’s dairy farm, which was a partial grazing farm of largely hosteins, but also a small number of jersey’s & jersey x hostein. I drank raw milk by the gallon & made my own butter. I have nothing against people wanting to buy grassfed milk or meat or raw milk, however, I don’t appreciate people spreading misinformation. It is not true that grassfed milk is the only source of CLA’s & results have varied as to the benefits of grassfed dairy cattle. I can write that the sky is green & convince a bunch of people the sky is green & send them out into the world to spread the message…but that doesn’t make the message true. I have already ordered one book mentioned here from the library, & will probably look up the other names that were dropped, however, I’m just not seeing the factual information behind their claims nor credentials behind the person.

Tell me this, if soilent green were developed & found to be the most nutritious, organically & sustainably produced food, with the lowest environmental impact (the perfect food), would you consume it rather than food as we know it?

ps…I worship at God’s altar. He & science coexist just fine in my life.
.-= tonya´s last blog ..rcwant2be: Si joint had very slightly slipped out of place. That’s good news. Back again tues. =-.