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	<title>Comments on: Real Food Face-Off: Mama Says vs. MAHM</title>
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	<link>http://www.kitchenstewardship.com/2010/03/02/real-food-face-off-mama-says-vs-mahm/</link>
	<description>Balancing God&#039;s Gifts...One Baby Step at a Time</description>
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		<title>By: Katie</title>
		<link>http://www.kitchenstewardship.com/2010/03/02/real-food-face-off-mama-says-vs-mahm/comment-page-1/#comment-12674</link>
		<dc:creator>Katie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Mar 2010 03:07:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kitchenstewardship.com/2010/03/02/real-food-face-off-mama-says-vs-mahm/#comment-12674</guid>
		<description>Robyn,
You&#039;re a woman after my own heart - going straight to the research!  ;) But you&#039;re right, it&#039;s very time-consuming.  Want to team up with me to research the soaking grains process?  I&#039;m deep in food science journals and such trying to find the chemistry behind the phytate issue.

I haven&#039;t really looked into the saturated fat thing on my own, though.  Maybe someday.  We don&#039;t use it in crazy amounts here, but I do believe that to absorb fat-soluble vitamins in things like carrots, you need a fat with it, so butter goes on all our toast, etc.

Good old Michael Pollan. He&#039;s wrecking many a bistro hamburger for us Americans, isn&#039;t he?  ;)

Your site is just lovely, and what a great concept. I wish I had time to peruse more; I think I could get lost in your articles quite quickly!
God bless, 
Katie</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Robyn,<br />
You&#8217;re a woman after my own heart &#8211; going straight to the research!  <img src='http://www.kitchenstewardship.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' />  But you&#8217;re right, it&#8217;s very time-consuming.  Want to team up with me to research the soaking grains process?  I&#8217;m deep in food science journals and such trying to find the chemistry behind the phytate issue.</p>
<p>I haven&#8217;t really looked into the saturated fat thing on my own, though.  Maybe someday.  We don&#8217;t use it in crazy amounts here, but I do believe that to absorb fat-soluble vitamins in things like carrots, you need a fat with it, so butter goes on all our toast, etc.</p>
<p>Good old Michael Pollan. He&#8217;s wrecking many a bistro hamburger for us Americans, isn&#8217;t he?  <img src='http://www.kitchenstewardship.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Your site is just lovely, and what a great concept. I wish I had time to peruse more; I think I could get lost in your articles quite quickly!<br />
God bless,<br />
Katie</p>
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		<title>By: Robyn</title>
		<link>http://www.kitchenstewardship.com/2010/03/02/real-food-face-off-mama-says-vs-mahm/comment-page-1/#comment-12638</link>
		<dc:creator>Robyn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Mar 2010 15:13:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kitchenstewardship.com/2010/03/02/real-food-face-off-mama-says-vs-mahm/#comment-12638</guid>
		<description>Katie,

I&#039;ll be the first to tell you that you should always choose butter over margarine (if those are the only choices). I don&#039;t fully trust &quot;engineered&quot; margarines that supposedly contain &quot;good&quot; hydrogenated vegetable fats, mainly because I have a philosophical problem with &quot;engineered&quot; foods to begin with. (I think I&#039;m in good company here!) We eat butter in our household—but in moderation. To be fair, Shelley did express something of the same sentiment (complaining about cooking using &quot;Paula Deen&quot; amounts of butter). &quot;Healthy&quot; and &quot;unhealthy&quot; fats fall on a spectrum with butter somewhere in the middle (and trans fats so far in the &quot;unhealthy&quot; direction that they count as poison in my mind).

I am very wary of any source of nutrition information that has an agenda or strong point of view about food behind it. It&#039;s very easy to selectively report research studies in these sources. I prefer to go directly to PubMed when I have time, but it takes a lot of time and effort to sort through and evaluate the value of the studies. I think very few of them investigate butter specifically, as this is a very difficult study to conduct, especially long-term. Double-blind and placebo controlled is nearly impossible because people can &lt;i&gt;taste&lt;/i&gt; butter, not to mention that everyone eats all kinds of foods. More common are longitudinal studies that look at overall diet and lifestyle choices. It&#039;s not possible to pick out just butter&#039;s effects from these studies.

My complaint about Shelley buying the chicken was not that it&#039;s not a good nourishing investment... it &lt;i&gt;is&lt;/i&gt;, definitely! It was only that it seemed to be too much of the mere $20 allotted for the week. If a little more money were available for a week of food, that chicken would definitely be more appropriate. (And I&#039;ll give her points again for her love of homemade stock—we love that too although I don&#039;t make it enough!)

I do agree that with butter, meat, etc., the animal&#039;s feed is important. This is both logical and empirically provable—it&#039;s not hard to analyze the meat from corn-fed and grass-fed cattle and see which contains what molecules. I am thrilled to have finally found a good source of grass-fed beef (just in time, as Michael Pollan has made it impossible for me to stomach conventional CAFO ground beef anymore). I can&#039;t eat burgers in restaurants, but at least I can enjoy them at home again!
.-= Robyn&#180;s last blog ..&lt;a href=&quot;http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/LeaveTheLightsOn/~3/MyQDtE_S0NU/anointing-of-the-sick-and-last-rites&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Anointing of the Sick and Last Rites&lt;/a&gt; =-.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Katie,</p>
<p>I&#8217;ll be the first to tell you that you should always choose butter over margarine (if those are the only choices). I don&#8217;t fully trust &#8220;engineered&#8221; margarines that supposedly contain &#8220;good&#8221; hydrogenated vegetable fats, mainly because I have a philosophical problem with &#8220;engineered&#8221; foods to begin with. (I think I&#8217;m in good company here!) We eat butter in our household—but in moderation. To be fair, Shelley did express something of the same sentiment (complaining about cooking using &#8220;Paula Deen&#8221; amounts of butter). &#8220;Healthy&#8221; and &#8220;unhealthy&#8221; fats fall on a spectrum with butter somewhere in the middle (and trans fats so far in the &#8220;unhealthy&#8221; direction that they count as poison in my mind).</p>
<p>I am very wary of any source of nutrition information that has an agenda or strong point of view about food behind it. It&#8217;s very easy to selectively report research studies in these sources. I prefer to go directly to PubMed when I have time, but it takes a lot of time and effort to sort through and evaluate the value of the studies. I think very few of them investigate butter specifically, as this is a very difficult study to conduct, especially long-term. Double-blind and placebo controlled is nearly impossible because people can <i>taste</i> butter, not to mention that everyone eats all kinds of foods. More common are longitudinal studies that look at overall diet and lifestyle choices. It&#8217;s not possible to pick out just butter&#8217;s effects from these studies.</p>
<p>My complaint about Shelley buying the chicken was not that it&#8217;s not a good nourishing investment&#8230; it <i>is</i>, definitely! It was only that it seemed to be too much of the mere $20 allotted for the week. If a little more money were available for a week of food, that chicken would definitely be more appropriate. (And I&#8217;ll give her points again for her love of homemade stock—we love that too although I don&#8217;t make it enough!)</p>
<p>I do agree that with butter, meat, etc., the animal&#8217;s feed is important. This is both logical and empirically provable—it&#8217;s not hard to analyze the meat from corn-fed and grass-fed cattle and see which contains what molecules. I am thrilled to have finally found a good source of grass-fed beef (just in time, as Michael Pollan has made it impossible for me to stomach conventional CAFO ground beef anymore). I can&#8217;t eat burgers in restaurants, but at least I can enjoy them at home again!<br />
.-= Robyn&#180;s last blog ..<a href="http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/LeaveTheLightsOn/~3/MyQDtE_S0NU/anointing-of-the-sick-and-last-rites" rel="nofollow">Anointing of the Sick and Last Rites</a> =-.</p>
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		<title>By: Katie</title>
		<link>http://www.kitchenstewardship.com/2010/03/02/real-food-face-off-mama-says-vs-mahm/comment-page-1/#comment-12611</link>
		<dc:creator>Katie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Mar 2010 04:52:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kitchenstewardship.com/2010/03/02/real-food-face-off-mama-says-vs-mahm/#comment-12611</guid>
		<description>Robyn,
Thanks for coming on over from Lisa&#039;s site (I assume!). There&#039;s an awful lot of controversial research on butter, and I would tend to disagree with you that good fat is liquid at room temp.  Since my family cut the canola and added more butter and coconut oil to our diets, my hub&#039;s HDL more than doubled and his overall chol remained almost the same.  Check out these posts for research-based evidence: &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.kitchenstewardship.com/2009/10/05/food-for-thought-the-evils-of-saturated-fats/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Is butter bad?&lt;/a&gt; and &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.kitchenstewardship.com/2009/10/19/food-for-thought-are-polyunsaturated-oils-healthy/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Are Polyunsaturated Oils Healthy?&lt;/a&gt;

You would be surprised at how many people spent half their $20 on a whole chicken, mostly because the bone broth you can get from it is second-to-none in frugality and nutrition.  It&#039;s not all about being full, it&#039;s about being nourished.

We love our dried beans around here, though, to stretch the rest of the meals!
:) Katie</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Robyn,<br />
Thanks for coming on over from Lisa&#8217;s site (I assume!). There&#8217;s an awful lot of controversial research on butter, and I would tend to disagree with you that good fat is liquid at room temp.  Since my family cut the canola and added more butter and coconut oil to our diets, my hub&#8217;s HDL more than doubled and his overall chol remained almost the same.  Check out these posts for research-based evidence: <a href="http://www.kitchenstewardship.com/2009/10/05/food-for-thought-the-evils-of-saturated-fats/" rel="nofollow">Is butter bad?</a> and <a href="http://www.kitchenstewardship.com/2009/10/19/food-for-thought-are-polyunsaturated-oils-healthy/" rel="nofollow">Are Polyunsaturated Oils Healthy?</a></p>
<p>You would be surprised at how many people spent half their $20 on a whole chicken, mostly because the bone broth you can get from it is second-to-none in frugality and nutrition.  It&#8217;s not all about being full, it&#8217;s about being nourished.</p>
<p>We love our dried beans around here, though, to stretch the rest of the meals! <img src='http://www.kitchenstewardship.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />  Katie</p>
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		<title>By: Heather H.</title>
		<link>http://www.kitchenstewardship.com/2010/03/02/real-food-face-off-mama-says-vs-mahm/comment-page-1/#comment-12590</link>
		<dc:creator>Heather H.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Mar 2010 22:58:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kitchenstewardship.com/2010/03/02/real-food-face-off-mama-says-vs-mahm/#comment-12590</guid>
		<description>Great post! Im jealous of Lisa because she has a husband that likes fermented foods, and has any interest at all in real food. 
I&#039;m jealous of Shelley because she&#039;s paying $4.25 for raw milk! I&#039;m at $7.50 (totally worth it).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great post! Im jealous of Lisa because she has a husband that likes fermented foods, and has any interest at all in real food.<br />
I&#8217;m jealous of Shelley because she&#8217;s paying $4.25 for raw milk! I&#8217;m at $7.50 (totally worth it).</p>
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		<title>By: Robyn</title>
		<link>http://www.kitchenstewardship.com/2010/03/02/real-food-face-off-mama-says-vs-mahm/comment-page-1/#comment-12553</link>
		<dc:creator>Robyn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Mar 2010 23:23:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kitchenstewardship.com/2010/03/02/real-food-face-off-mama-says-vs-mahm/#comment-12553</guid>
		<description>I give points to Shelley for her love of homemade stock and concern for humane meats. But I have some issues with some of the things she said. Butter is &lt;i&gt;not&lt;/i&gt; &quot;good fat&quot; no matter how you spin it. It&#039;s less-bad fat than hydrogenated oils and shortenings, but it&#039;s still saturated fat. &quot;Good fat&quot; is liquid at room temperature. And I think she could easily make her real-food diet much more affordable with some commons sense. The reason Americans today eat so much meat is because CAFOs with GMO corn feed have made it cheap. Before those innovations, most Americans didn&#039;t eat meat every day. If you want meat made the old-fashioned way, with cattle fed biologically appropriate grass diets in reasonably sanitary conditions, you need to simply eat less meat. I am shocked at what she would spend her $20 on for a week. More than half of that for &lt;i&gt;one chicken&lt;/i&gt;? If you have only $20 for one week of groceries, you have to go vegetarian or nearly so. Also, where is she getting the wine, lemon, and capers for the chicken piccatta? Where is she getting the bread for the sandwiches? And what are they eating for breakfast and lunch?

Lisa wins for pointing out the importance of ingredients like dried legumes and whole-wheat flour in a healthy, real-food diet that&#039;s affordable, for eating more fruits and vegetables than an occasional bit of cabbage, for having the wisdom not to try to do everything at once, and for mentioning &lt;i&gt;The Joy of Cooking&lt;/i&gt;, which is the only cookbook you&#039;ll ever need. But I am highly biased and my vote should not count because I&#039;m related to her, and of course we think alike on a lot of things!
.-= Robyn&#180;s last blog ..&lt;a href=&quot;http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/LeaveTheLightsOn/~3/MyQDtE_S0NU/anointing-of-the-sick-and-last-rites&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Anointing of the Sick and Last Rites&lt;/a&gt; =-.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I give points to Shelley for her love of homemade stock and concern for humane meats. But I have some issues with some of the things she said. Butter is <i>not</i> &#8220;good fat&#8221; no matter how you spin it. It&#8217;s less-bad fat than hydrogenated oils and shortenings, but it&#8217;s still saturated fat. &#8220;Good fat&#8221; is liquid at room temperature. And I think she could easily make her real-food diet much more affordable with some commons sense. The reason Americans today eat so much meat is because CAFOs with GMO corn feed have made it cheap. Before those innovations, most Americans didn&#8217;t eat meat every day. If you want meat made the old-fashioned way, with cattle fed biologically appropriate grass diets in reasonably sanitary conditions, you need to simply eat less meat. I am shocked at what she would spend her $20 on for a week. More than half of that for <i>one chicken</i>? If you have only $20 for one week of groceries, you have to go vegetarian or nearly so. Also, where is she getting the wine, lemon, and capers for the chicken piccatta? Where is she getting the bread for the sandwiches? And what are they eating for breakfast and lunch?</p>
<p>Lisa wins for pointing out the importance of ingredients like dried legumes and whole-wheat flour in a healthy, real-food diet that&#8217;s affordable, for eating more fruits and vegetables than an occasional bit of cabbage, for having the wisdom not to try to do everything at once, and for mentioning <i>The Joy of Cooking</i>, which is the only cookbook you&#8217;ll ever need. But I am highly biased and my vote should not count because I&#8217;m related to her, and of course we think alike on a lot of things!<br />
.-= Robyn&#180;s last blog ..<a href="http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/LeaveTheLightsOn/~3/MyQDtE_S0NU/anointing-of-the-sick-and-last-rites" rel="nofollow">Anointing of the Sick and Last Rites</a> =-.</p>
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		<title>By: Joann</title>
		<link>http://www.kitchenstewardship.com/2010/03/02/real-food-face-off-mama-says-vs-mahm/comment-page-1/#comment-12546</link>
		<dc:creator>Joann</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Mar 2010 19:34:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kitchenstewardship.com/2010/03/02/real-food-face-off-mama-says-vs-mahm/#comment-12546</guid>
		<description>I enjoyed this series overall very much.  Great idea!  I enjoyed their candid responses.

The link to the lenten reflection didn&#039;t work, but I corrected it and found it.  Wow, it was really good!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I enjoyed this series overall very much.  Great idea!  I enjoyed their candid responses.</p>
<p>The link to the lenten reflection didn&#8217;t work, but I corrected it and found it.  Wow, it was really good!</p>
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		<title>By: Sarah</title>
		<link>http://www.kitchenstewardship.com/2010/03/02/real-food-face-off-mama-says-vs-mahm/comment-page-1/#comment-12537</link>
		<dc:creator>Sarah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Mar 2010 16:19:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kitchenstewardship.com/2010/03/02/real-food-face-off-mama-says-vs-mahm/#comment-12537</guid>
		<description>Great post!  The neurotoxicity of the food colorings are interesting . . . and frightening!  We eat very, very little of anything with these, but the occasional treat does (like M&amp;Ms :)  Thanks for hosting, Katie!

Best,
Sarah

PS - Looking forward to your secret guest posts!
.-= Sarah&#180;s last blog ..&lt;a href=&quot;http://sarahs-musings.blogspot.com/2010/03/toddler-rules-of-engagement-aka.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Toddler Rules of Engagement, a.k.a. everything is MINE!!!&lt;/a&gt; =-.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great post!  The neurotoxicity of the food colorings are interesting . . . and frightening!  We eat very, very little of anything with these, but the occasional treat does (like M&amp;Ms <img src='http://www.kitchenstewardship.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />   Thanks for hosting, Katie!</p>
<p>Best,<br />
Sarah</p>
<p>PS &#8211; Looking forward to your secret guest posts!<br />
.-= Sarah&#180;s last blog ..<a href="http://sarahs-musings.blogspot.com/2010/03/toddler-rules-of-engagement-aka.html" rel="nofollow">Toddler Rules of Engagement, a.k.a. everything is MINE!!!</a> =-.</p>
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