It may have been a bit ambitious to try to get my to-do list checked off today. Between 3:00 and dinner, I made 4 double batches of power bars from Healthy Snacks to Go, some for gifts and some for travel snacks, a batch of lacto-fermented homemade mayo, plus dinner itself, which was another “meal transformation,” making a reader recipe for chicken enchiladas into a real food version. This entailed making a 4-can batch of homemade cream of chicken soup, some for tomorrow and the next day.
The side was Cuban black beans and rice, a recipe I haven’t touched much in the last year but need to nail down for January’s release of the Beans & Legumes book (still need a title for that one). Yikes! Did I mention my 2 and 5-year-olds were both awake and around?
Then after dinner and getting the kids to sleep
(i.e. nearly 9 p.m.) I had homemade vanilla and Irish Cream to bottle up, graham crackers, homemade Wheat Thin crackers, and banana muffins to get soaking, lentils and barley to soak for dinner tomorrow, and a batch of rolls to bake and package up for teacher gifts, along with a little bottle of homemade vanilla extract, some power balls and a lip balm from MadeOn. Check out the order I received this week:
Still free shipping on orders over $25 with code “Christmas2010”. Guess who forgot that when she made her order? Seriously. I kill myself.
And dishes. Don’t forget the massive pile of dishes this all generated.
But for packaging the teacher gifts since the rolls are still cooling (and I’m out of energy), I did get all that done. The ambitious part was trying to write a detailed blog post that would take statistical analysis and probably a bunch of other heady, academic tasks I’m really not qualified to do, especially with the little brain power I have left after that day in the kitchen.
Therefore, I am not going to close out the Test Your Grains Challenge today. I’ll tackle that next week, since I didn’t really have a clear vision for next week anyway. I think it’ll be “catch-up week” for all the posts that got squeezed out because of time constraints.
Today I might as well tackle something else I’m totally not qualified for but will find much more fun. I’ve been wanting to go through Sarah’s post called Whole Grain Cause Cavities? point by point since I read it last week, so here goes:
A little background: The post is based on a conversation with Rami Nagel, author of Cure Tooth Decay, who is an advocate against whole grains because of the high phytic acid content, which can prevent absorption of minerals, which can cause tooth decay.
Sarah paraphrased Nagel saying:
Traditional societies did not usually make use of the entire grain…Rami recommends removal of the bran from wheat, spelt, rye, kamut, barley, corn, millet and oats through sifting or sieving.
My thoughts:
Oh, man. I already complained a little about this Monday, but that just sounds like an incredible amount of extra work. I grind fresh grain already, which is already extra work adding a few minutes to my process every time I bake with flour. I can see the bran as it’s much darker than the rest of the flour and does tend to congregate together, but I have no idea how I’d even begin to sift it out. It’s just one. more. thing.
Am I lazy on this one? Maybe. But my family isn’t dealing with tooth decay, or I might feel differently.
Sarah and Rami:
Rami’s research also indicates that sprouting grains does not reduce phytic acid significantly enough to make them safe for consumption.
In addition, Rami told me that soaking whole or sprouted grains in buttermilk, clabbered milk, yogurt or kefir does not seem to reduce phytic acid content significantly. However, he did say that soaking will reduce phytic acid content but that plain, filtered water plus liquid whey is the best method for accomplishing this (substitute fresh lemon juice or apple cider vinegar for dairy free soaking).
My thoughts:
“Not safe for consumption” really sounds scary. I don’t know how I feel about that. I can think of many “foods” and non-foods that are a lot more dangerous to consume than whole grains, in my uneducated book.
I should really look into Rami’s research, as it seems most other sources say sprouting grains is a very healthy way to go. Logically, it seems that beginning to sprout the seed ought to reduce most of the seed’s defenses against being eaten, but I really only barely understand the whole lot of this. What do you guys think?
Since whey literally comes from yogurt, why wouldn’t yogurt and why have the same impact? They have the same pH (I checked), and adding more whey or less whey to soaking water neither increased or decreased the pH. Yes, I do have pH strips in my kitchen, as a matter of fact. I’m kind of geeked about that!
I wanted to know if Sarah substituted lemon juice and vinegar for the whey based on what we’ve been taught by Nourishing Traditions, or if that’s what Rami Nagel said. I find it hard to believe that lemon juice would have the same effect as whey, but that yogurt would not. I’m dying for some human tests with all this! My personal hunch – literally just a hunch, based on very little – is that the lacto-fermentation that results in whey-soaked grains has a greater positive digestive impact than any slightly acidic pH, but I don’t test for mineral absorption in my kitchen (oh, if only!).
One of Sarah’s new goals:
I will be sifting and then soaking my sprouted flour before baking since sprouting alone does not seem to reduce phytic acid content significantly.
Me:
Sarah, you are amazing. What dedication! The only reason I would sprout flour or buy sprouted flour (or win it like you can right HERE!) is so that I can make cookies or something that either (a) I cannot soak or (b) I don’t want to take the time to soak. Sometimes it’s nice to be able to make muffins or pizza dough because you feel like eating them today, not tomorrow. I truly can’t imagine going through all the trouble or expense of making sprouted flour and then proceeding to both sift and soak it. Were it me, that line would be, “I’m swearing off grains forever, and may I die soon and go to Heaven so I can eat bread!” That is likely a little dramatic, but I’m feeling that way today.
Now, on to the comments at the post. There’s as much meat and controversy there as in the post itself, so get comfortable.
from Diana Bauman of A Little Bit of Spain in Iowa:
Sarah, I’m a little confused. When talking about the bran from whole wheat berries be it wheat, rye or spelt how would one separate the bran? The outer layer of the wheat berry? The bran makes up a considerable amount of nutrients including most of the fiber in the wheat. Once removed, your left with a small percentage of the germ and the endosperm… pretty much white flour. By sifting pulverized wheat berries (ground flour), there is no way to separate the bran from the rest of the wheat berry. I’m assuming if the bran is stripped the phytic acid would be nearly gone since all that is left would be the endosperm or white flour. Am I missing something? This is interesting though and would appreciate your comments.
a response from Elizabeth Walling of The Nourished Life:
Diana, Stephan Guyenet from Whole Health Source has written a lot about how grains were traditionally prepared in healthy cultures. He mentions more than once than separating the bran was a common practice. Here is one of his quotes:
"To make sourdough bread, first the dry grains are ground into flour. Next, the flour is sifted through a screen to remove a portion of the bran. The earliest bread eaters probably didn’t do this, although there is evidence of the wealthy eating sifted flour in societies as old as ancient Egypt and ancient Rome. I don’t know what the optimum amount of bran to include in flour is, but it’s not zero. I would be inclined to keep at least half of it, recognizing that the bran is disproportionately rich in nutrients."
This is just one random quote that I grabbed up quickly, but there are a lot of other good quotes from his site about this. The point is that even traditional cultures did not always eat the entire grain, although they still ate a much less refined version (and typically fermented) than the white flour we’re familiar with today.
I feel like Dr. Guyenet backed up both Diana and Rami: get rid of some bran because it’s not good for you, but keep some because it holds all the nutrients. Phew!
from Diana again:
Elizabeth, coming from a very traditional family, in Spain… this was unheard of. So for me, culturally, I need to stick to that. However, I’m still interested. How does one separate the bran? I grind my own wheat… if I were to sift that, equal proportion of flour will go through the sifter. It doesn’t separate the bran from the endosperm or germ. It will all go through as it’s just being sifted creating a lighter volume of flour. I feel the only way one can separate the bran from the rest of the berry is if it’s man made… totally eliminating the value of grinding your own at home.
Me: I hear that…
Sarah’s response:
Hi Diana, when you sift your fresh flour, much of the bran stays in the sifter. This is what you discard. Some of the bran will still go through, yes, but that is ok from what I understand from Rami. Getting most of the bran out is the goal not every single bit.
Oh, and yes you are pretty much left with freshly ground white flour (but it is not refined as there are no fillers and synthetic vitamins added nor is it bleached). There is nutrition and fiber in the bran, yes, but it does more harm than good digestively which is why it is discarded according to Rami’s research.
Me: Sarah does a lot of video blogging, and I’m really hoping she shows us how this all shakes out – literally – sometime soon! Also, wouldn’t the wheat germ be left in? There are healthy fats there not to be discounted. And I can buy white flour that is unbleached without fillers, although those synthetic vitamins are definitely in there. Store whole wheat flour, usually, has the bran but not the germ included, ironically, because it’s the germ that makes whole grains go rancid so quickly once ground. The fat oxidizes.
Sarah’s response to a comment about how to sprout:
When sprouting, only just the nub of the sprout should show before drying them out in a warm oven or dehydrator. The longer you let the sprout grow, the more of the germ is used up and the less flour you will get when you grind them up. This is why it is so hard to grind them if you let the sprout go too long.
Me: This is interesting, because Kate at Modern Alternative Mama has done a lot of experimentation in her family, and she finds that soaked grain is not tolerated well, but neither is sprouted grain with just a nub growing. However, with a half inch sprout, her family can tolerate sprouted grain baked goods. !!! You can find her story in her book In the Kitchen: Real Food Basics. It’s quite fascinating.
Sarah’s response to a reader question about why and how to cook oatmeal after soaking:
You MUST cook the oatmeal after soaking it overnight. It only takes a few minutes on medium heat to cook it up until it is nice and soft.
Me: I understand the reader’s question, because one popular breakfast that a few friends eat regularly is called “overnight oats.” It’s equal parts oatmeal and milk or yogurt, mixed and soaked in the refrigerator overnight, then eaten as is without cooking. One friend soaks enough for the whole week, and claims that as the days go by, the oatmeal gets even softer and more creamy.
My first thought, of course, was how darn similar that is to my soaked oatmeal, except for the soaking at room temperature vs. in the fridge. My second thought was, “No cooking? Really? That sounds easy…” and my third is wondering if there is any breakdown of phytic acid or other antinutrients with this process, since the oatmeal changes over time. Or is it just mushy oatmeal?
That oatmeal must be cooked is an interesting point – I’m not disputing this one, because I have no idea what the research is. I just want to know a source and a reason. What’s the science behind mandatory cooking of oatmeal? When I make soaked granola in my dehydrator, am I actually eating something just as unhealthy as regular old baked granola, which Sally Fallon called completely “indigestible” in her interview at KS?
Does anyone else’s head hurt? I definitely didn’t need one more thing to be afraid of, and I’m just going to have to take a bystander’s academic view of this situation. I’m not letting it infiltrate my kitchen quite yet, even though Diana did end up sifting some flour, surprised that the bran largely sifted out, and like her cookies even better.
I’m still pleased to hear that in general, sourdough preparation doesn’t get any knocks as a healthy way to prepare grains. At least we still have that going for us! If you haven’t checked out the sourdough eCourse yet offered by GNOWFGLINS, you’ll find some new features (a real food menu planner and monthly conference calls for starters) as well as a new membership tier to fit your time available and income.
I guest lectured on honey whole wheat sourdough and homemade crackers, plus did the “thank you” video for last month, which you can purchase individually if you’re still looking for some real food appetizers for your Christmas parties this month! I’m kind of excited (okay, totally thrilled) about my guest lecture for the next class, but I’m not sure if I can share it yet. Let’s just say it’s probably the one nourishing food preparation that I honestly feel like I’m an expert on, and I’m super pumped to videotape my process for you all! Check out all the classes HERE.
And last but not least, but sure to be on your game tomorrow starting at 6 a.m. for the extra entry in the Nutrimill grain mill giveaway, coming in January! (Subscribers only! Hop on the bandwagon now!) Hopefully you can sift out the bran when you grind your own flour, right? 
———————————————
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If you missed the last Monday Mission, click here.
Kitchen Stewardship is dedicated to balancing God’s gifts of time, health, earth and money. If you feel called to such a mission, read more at Mission, Method, and Mary and Martha Moments.
Disclosure: I am an affiliate for Real Food Basics, MadeOn and the sourdough eCourse, and I’ll earn a kickback if you start here and purchase there. It’s fun to collaborate with other bloggers! I respect the work Sarah and Rami Nagel do very much, and I hope this post is only viewed as intended, as a query into research and yen to know more, not a disagreement or argument. See my full disclosure statement here.
Maybe the yogurt/kefir soaking doesn’t work as well because it’s too thick, and the water base penetrates the flour better? (I’m no scientist, but that was my first thought.)
Whenever I’ve tried to buy brown flour from a mill (in Slovakia) they only have what they call graham flour. The rest of the wheat berry is finely ground but the bran is very large – in fact, if you don’t sift it out you end up with chewy fiberous chunks in your product, even if soaked. This summer I was at a outdoor museum, and many houses had large sieves, of a thin wooden circle with smaller wooden strips crisscrossing across the circle. The holes were bigger than a regular mesh sieve, but probably small enough to catch chunks of bran.
The thought of sprouting flour is too much for me – what I would like to do is make sourdough for most things and use the blender method to grind it up. I rarely make cookies, so for special occasions they will just be regular flour – maybe a mix of white and brown, since that would kind of be like sifted brown flour.
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Katie Reply:
December 16th, 2010 at 3:00 pm
Naomi,
Katie
I think the same about white and whole wheat mixed – meets the standard without so much work!
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I have struggled with this issue about the whole grains: good or bad, bread: good or bad, soaking: good or bad. I found this article which really helped me: http://info.breadbeckers.com/phytic-acid/
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Wow, plenty of debate in regards of how to best prepare grains. I’ll stick to eating (mostly) real food. I typically make sourdough bread, but some with commercial yeast as well. Usually they have some whole wheat in them, but not usually more than 50%. In the summer, we would often eat Swiss style Muesli (soaked oatmeal, not cooked). It’s great. In the winter, we are eating a lot of oat bran, which is also delicious. I also enjoy steel cut oats. So, these may or may not be good for me, I’m sure they are better for me than processed foods, so I’m going to stick with that.
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Thanks for “ruminating” through this topic for me- I had glanced at the original post when it was posted, but didn’t really dig into it as it made my brain hurt…
I am committed to real foods- we drink raw milk, I make all of our baked goods with sourdough, I buy organic, etc. I love researching and learning about health and nutrition.
That being said, I think we have to be careful not to get ourselves into bondage over it… It can almost become some sort of “legalistic” rule system if we aren’t careful.
Ultimately, God has the final say over our health and how long we live on this earth. I wholeheartedly believe that we should be good stewards of our body, but not to the point that we ignore our children and neglect our households because we are digging bran flakes out of our flour! lol!
So I will continue to look into this topic as well, and who knows, maybe at some point, I will start sifting my bran, but not right now.
After all, I will be on this earth for exactly the amount of time that God wants me to be, regardless if I eat the occasional bit of white flour or not!
Thanks for this post Katie!
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Katie Reply:
December 16th, 2010 at 3:02 pm
Amen to that, Jill! Thank you!
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I wholeheartedly agree with Jill.
I am committed to eating real, whole foods but I think there is a point where you are running faster than you have strength.
I don’t doubt that there is science behind this and that perhaps grains can cause problems if not properly prepared, but it seems to me that worrying so much about it is counterproductive. For me, I get so caught up in worrying about whether or not it’s going to be good or bad for me, that it makes it feel overwhelming.
We’ll stick to whole grains, soaked/sprouted/sourdoughed and I feel good about that at this point. We seem to tolerate it well, we are healthy, rarely get sick, etc. So…for us, I feel good about where we are.
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i am constantly amazed at the lengths people will go to TRY to make grains healthy to eat despite continually mounting evidence that it isn’t a healthy food choice for most people.
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Wow! I feel soooo inadequate right now! We have reverted to store bread for the time being….till I start feeling well enough to start making our own regularly again. I have so much to work on!
Katie, you are super woman! How do you do it all!?
Thank you for all this info, and inspiration.
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Eh….I’m pretty well convinced this is an issue people will never agree on. Should we eat grains at all or not? How should we prepare them? White flour = good or bad?
I think it depends on your cultural background, your tastes, your gut health, your propensity towards tooth decay, etc. In our family, even on super crappy diets, we don’t get cavities. This just isn’t an issue on my radar, for that reason.
Obviously, from our experience, sprouting DOES make a difference. And no, you don’t actually get less flour when you sprout it more. But you do end up with a denser product that yields a rather gluey result if you sprout too much (1″ or more) because the gluten is so broken down.
I think that the bran IS probably problematic, but I’m worried more from the fiber aspect. It tears up your insides. Most people are still pro-high-fiber diets (even real foodies!), but I don’t think we should want that.
I like to look at what small children best tolerate, and how their digestion unfolds. First, they have breastmilk — very high in fats, especially saturated fats and cholesterol. Then they start out with meats, then dairy/cheeses/yogurt, then fruits and veggies, and last, grains. Some kids don’t tolerate them well, or don’t tolerate certain things. I note that my children still do not tolerate raw carrots well, even my almost 3-year-old.
What does it come down to? Eat your grains, eat them prepared however most makes sense to you, and eat them in moderation only. Don’t base your meals on them and don’t get 11 (!!) servings a day. There’s no point in hashing this out over and over for most home cooks, because although it’s important…it’s not worth stressing about. At all.
Me? I’m eating what I crave. Which these days is a bit more grains than I’d prefer. But…that’s okay. That’s where I am right now. And yes, I’m buying my (sprouted) bread at the store. That’s where I am, too. No guilt over that! It is what it is. I even buy white sourdough (gasp!) sometimes!
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When I first started trying to get our family healthy I relied heavily on Sally Fallon and the WAPF foundation. As I’ve gone further down this road I’ve found myself relying less on them and more on God. My conclusion is the the food on this earth will never be perfect–no matter how we prepare it. People will go further and further with “science” proving every day that one thing or another is bad for us (or good for us), but unfortunately that seems to change a lot. So, I’ve come to the point where I pray about our family’s health and let God put on my heart the best way to prepare our food. For us that means mostly soaked grains, but some regular organic pasta as well, lots of organic fruits, veggies, fermented condiments, pastured meats (Polyface delivers nearby) and whole raw milk from another nearby farm. I’m culturing butter from our cream and make bone broth at least once a month. Could Nagel come to our home and find 100 things I’m doing wrong? Probably. But we’ve not had a cold or flu in over a year, so I’m praising God and continuing to follow his good guidance.
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Katie Reply:
December 17th, 2010 at 9:15 am
Kathy,
Katie
Mmm, yum! I wrote a post way back when I started about praying for food choices: http://www.kitchenstewardship.com/2009/03/27/mary-and-martha-moment-trust-in-the-promise-of-your-meal-blessing/
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Kathy Reply:
December 17th, 2010 at 9:49 am
Excellent post. I couldn’t have said it better myself!
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Coupla things…
First — congratulations on a very productive day!
Secondly — although I admit I skimmed the latter third or so of your discussion about whole grains — I have to wonder…where did we get the idea that because ‘traditional cultures’ (what does that even mean?) practiced one thing or another, that makes it the best way? Shouldn’t we look at discovering what actually IS the best way, regardless of who did and didn’t practice it? I don’t understand the invoking of these ‘traditional cultures’ as a reason in and of itself to practice anything. Why couldn’t they have been wrong about something regarding food? Every culture has gotten some things right and some wrong, like ours.
With the constant confusion about soaking/sprouting grains, I’m with you — I’d be ready to give them up before I’d go to all that hassle or expense! As it is, I have tried to limit our grain intake at home. When we’re at families/friends’ homes, we eat gratefully what we’re served. (I do love me some pasta though.)
I do have a question though. Regarding phytase/phytic acid content, do beans and legumes need to be soaked or sprouted in the same way as actual grains? Or are they in another family in that aspect?
Thanks so much!
~nikki
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Katie Reply:
December 17th, 2010 at 9:19 am
Nikki,
re: traditional cultures, that’s just looking at what people did for a really, really long time – and stayed very healthy – before the recent advent of industrial foods prep in the last 100 years. It’s something that resonates with me and makes sense…although I do appreciate good science to back it up!
Beans and legumes definitely need to be soaked or sprouted, as much as or more than other grains. I’ll be publishing a book in January all about cooking with dried beans!
Katie
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Nikki Moore Reply:
December 17th, 2010 at 12:15 pm
Thanks! I am not being argumentative. Sometimes I just get frustrated when deciding who to trust with my health. Any way you look at it, there’s an element of trust and faith…and it’s a little scary!
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Yes! My head hurts! I’m trying to let a lot of things go right now. Christmas is about peace and I can’t teach my children about peace if my home and I aren’t peaceful.
PS- Lots of people will be enjoying your granola Christmas morning. I love your recipe.
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Just wanted to chime in how much I appreciate your willingness to “question the powers that be” with critical thought. I appreciate Jill’s comments and found myself agreeing with Kathy, too. We, too, adopted the WAPF philosophy, but lately, with all of the “fear” of this and that and rat-tat-tat, I’ve purposely pulled back and have tried not to become anxious about what crosses our lips. We try to eat whole, nourishing foods as much as humanly possible, and I try to avoid fretting about all of the anxiety-producing articles out there that make you question what you’ve learned more than once. The more I keep my eyes on the Lord, I am convinced that the less I will fret about what mankind has to say on any given day.
Christmas blessings!
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Wow Katie! You are the queen of getting down to the nitty gritty!!! I only sifted my flour because my recipe called to sift flour, lol!! I was surprised, however, that a lot of the bran did stay on top. However, I used an oil splatter guard which has tiny holes and it took forever. My regular bread is made without sifting or soaking. Praise the Lord my families tummies digest home milled bread just fine
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I also read the original article at the time of publishing and felt extremely overwhelmed. I even exclaimed to myself: ‘What? Now I have to sift AND soak even the sprouted flour – no way I am doing that. I pay too much for it already.’
But then a bit later after reading Barry Groves book ”Trick or Treat” I am trying to cut the total amount of carbohydrates I consume be it cookies, bread, veg or fruit as much as possible and if particularly green veg and fruit are ok in small amounts with some animal fat the breads and pastas and cookies are not beneficial to our body what so ever. I do enjoy home baked sourdough bread though, but try to go easy on it.
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Wow, thanks for this huge effort of analysis, Katie! My head is also spinning and I’m a bit depressed that I can’t feel totally good about baking with my expensive sprouted flour. But now I do feel better about the part whole wheat sourdough bread made from organic local grains I buy from a bakery nearby. I wish it were easier to not eat grains!
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Please read this link about “ergot” poisoning that is believed to be the initial cause of the odd behavior of the Salem “Witches.” http://www.foodreference.com/html/a-ergotism-salem.html
‘But what was the initial stimulus? What caused the bucolic denizens of Salem to exhibit such inexplicable behaviors? Encephalitis, Huntington’s Chorea, and schizophrenia have all been suspected. But according to research by psychologist Linnda Caporael of Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute in Troy, New York, it was a good ole fashioned fungus, ergot to be precise. Ergot is a fungus that affects grains’ and grasses. Rye is particularly vulnerable to developing ergot and was the staple grain for the citizens of Salem.”
“Because rye flour is low in protein it produces inadequate gluten and therefore does not rise well. Thus, it is often mixed with traditional wheat flour to boost its protein content.”
” Ergot thrives in warm, damp, rainy environments, the exact conditions that occurred in Salem the year prior to the trials. Most of the symptomatic accusers lived in the western part of the village, an area of swampy meadows perfect for fostering ergot. “Interestingly, the summer of 1692 was very dry and this coincided with a marked reduction of “hexed” people”.
Because of the well documented information about ergot mold growing in damp grain, I too am forced to question that traditional people allowed their whole grains to get damp in order to make them more digestible. (By the way, this is not new info; I grew up near Boston/Salem, and this theory has been circulating around for years.)
My family eats whole grains and is virtually cavity free; it makes one wonder if Rami, who is a dentist, is trying to take one theory of tooth decay (which is caused by many, many factors) and “borrow and bend” Weston Price’s research for his own purposes?
Best Wishes,
Joyce
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Katie Reply:
January 3rd, 2011 at 12:33 am
Joyce,
I wrote an essay in high school about the ergot/Salem witch theory, so I’m all over that quote you posted! What a very good point about traditional societies allowing grain to remain damp. It certainly does sound like a recipe for mold disaster!
Thank you so much for sharing a great point –
Katie
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I am with you Jill. I don’t subscribe to the whole movement against grains as the Bible says bread is good for a man’s heart. God is all wise. Man has been tampering with what He made, but no scientist will ever be able to figure out all the ins and outs of any one part of God’s creation. I trust that as I try to learn what I can and do my best to feed my family well, God will take care of the rest.
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Finally got around to reading this post!
Well, I have suffered from tooth decay since starting to eat whole grains more about a year ago. Now, I can’t be 100% sure that was the cause but I’m pretty sure it contributed to it. That being said I was pregnant a few months before and was breastfeeding at the time so maybe my nutrient stores had already been depleted slightly. I will continue to make my own bread, etc. but I will use mostly white flour. If I use whole wheat it will only been in the form of sourdough and will still not be 100%.. atleast half will still be white flour. Geesh, I too wish I didn’t love grains as much and wish it was easier/cheaper to just be grain free. lol
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chuck Reply:
December 29th, 2010 at 12:09 pm
eliminating wheat is more expensive. it is cheap food that provides calories but not a whole lot more. replacing it with more animal protein, fruits and vegetables will be more nourishing for you. you will be able to maintain a healthy weight a lot easier and you will feel much better.
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Katie Reply:
December 29th, 2010 at 4:15 pm
Sonia,
Katie
I would be interested for sure to hear if this makes a positive improvement in your teeth, although you are right, pregnancy and breastfeeding makes a huge impact on dental health as well. The sourdough option ought to knock out the phytic acid for you and be healthier than 100% white homemade bread.
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In Nigeria everyone has wide faces and perfectly straight teeth, and the main carbs are yams, cassava and fermented millet porridge (although recently bread, pasta and rice have been introduced). My housekeeper made millet porridge for my daughter — first you soak the millet for a few days, then take it to a grinder, then bring it home and — yes — sift the bran away using a loosely woven cloth, and finally cook it for a few minutes.
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I also thought that article was useful. It reminded me that there is value to all of the real food we are choosing from, and by simply using moderation in all aspects of our diet, we can gain the most from what God has provided.
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Dawn Reply:
February 10th, 2011 at 12:00 pm
Oops, I was replying to Aniko, this article: http://info.breadbeckers.com/phytic-acid/
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Wow I just found the answer to this issue just before finding this page! It’s the calcium that hampers the breakdown of phytic acid. That’s why whey works so well, but not yogurt etc.
click below, and scroll down to her video.
http://www.rebuild-from-depression.com/soaking-grains
Hope this helps!
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Katie Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 12:55 am
Liz,
Katie
I respect Amanda’s work a great deal, but right now she’s the only one saying this. the whole grains issue is really a tough one! I still think whey does good things; I thought Amanda discounted whey as a dairy product and doesn’t use it anymore?
Thanks for sharing though!
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Liz Reply:
July 6th, 2011 at 2:37 am
Oh, yeah that’s right. I don’t know where I got the idea that she said ok to whey. I went back and she only seems to recommend water or water with lemon juice for soaking. I want to think I’m really going above and beyond using whey to soak because I thought that whey was full of good bacteria and increased the probiotic activity (does any occur in a 12 hour soak with any medium?) more than lemon juice or vinegar. Is that false? I also just saw one blogger suggest bacteria that comes from the grain (speaking about rice) itself from soaking in water might even produce phytase. Ever heard that one? In the comments he talks about this being more effective than whey. It requires saving some of the inoculated soaking water to add to the next batch, “Repeat the cycle. The process will gradually improve until 96% or more of the phytic acid is degraded at 24 hours.” I’m sorry if I’m late to the party here and just now getting caught up on the merrits of sourdough.
http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/2009/04/new-way-to-soak-brown-rice.html
I have no idea how to tell who’s info is good but I resinate with your tone and endurance on the subject so I’m relying on you for some guidance. I hope you don’t mind too much
Amazing how much your blog has had energized my curiostity. I am SO grateful to you for doing all this!
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Katie Reply:
July 16th, 2011 at 12:47 am
Hi Liz! I’m late to the party, too, catching up on comments after a serious break to move.
I totally use Guyenet’s process with the rice water. He’s a smart dude; makes sense to me!
As for soaking other things, I always have that hunch that lactic acid fermentation is probably better than just an acidic medium, too. My mom’s experience with lemon juice vs. whey in oatmeal is that whey makes much more of a positive difference in digestion. ??? Here’s all my soaking research, if you’re ready to be overwhelmed: http://www.kitchenstewardship.com/seriescarnivals/soaking-grains-an-exploration/
Katie
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It’s funny, after I posted that I went back to the wapf site and re-read their living with phytic acid article and sure enough the rice guy I mentioned was one of their recources and they were recommending that method. I guess I really am a little late to the party.lol. Boy I really thought I was so up on everything until a friend challenged me to a debate on NT. I’ve learned so much, and have come to the conclusion that I’ll keep soaking and won’t feel so guilty when we eat out and get white rice on occasion! Thanks for your help, and I hope your move went smoothly!
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Thank you for exploring this topic and sharing it. I know I’m almost a year late in commenting here, but I did want to thank you. Your approach to the whole debate is
I have a midwife who insists that the whole problem with grains is that in modern grinders we are grinding the bran too fine, which allows it into the bloodstream (instead of keeping it sweeping in the gut where it belongs) and there causes all the grain problems we hear about.
I can’t buy that theory wholeheartedly, either, but the various theories are interesting.
My favorites continue to be those that involve less processing and general simplicity (even if they have to soak overnight or cook for a whole hour!). I have such an easier time remembering where my food comes from, and having gratitude for it, the closer it is to the way God gave it (a boiled chicken with garden herbs rather than chicken nuggets, for example).
Thank you for the ideas you share!!
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