I hardly feel worthy to introduce this panel of cattle farmers from across the nation. Seven farmers agreed to answer my in-depth questions all about how they farm, what they feed their animals, what happens when they get sick, environmental stewardship, and their hopes and concerns for the future of American farming. 
I copied all answers in full exactly the way each panelist wished to be heard (although I may have edited a few misspellings; my English major’s fingers couldn’t be stopped).
The two ladies featured in today’s panel are both folks I “met” via the power of social media, namely, Twitter. I was gabbing one day about cows, grass vs. grain, what to feed calves, etc. and both ladies hopped in with thoughts. They were gracious enough to work with me on this panel; please enjoy this little window into their farming lives and give them a visit on Twitter and Facebook (and a follow/like in appreciation!).
I don’t even want to say anything else as you’ll be hanging out with us a while over the next three days in order to read everyone’s responses. The good stuff, by the way, starts happening around question 6, if you’re not the type of person to want to know people’s backgrounds. Personally, I’d read every word.
The answers are set up in two columns much like last year’s popular Real Food Face-Off, but in no way am I pitting one answer against another. The goal of this panel is simply to share the life of a farmer with everyone: how hard they work, how conscious they are of every decision, and the many layers that go into their jobs. Thank God for farmers! No farms, no food, you know? (Are you taking up this week’s Monday Mission and getting to know your food?)
| Lorraine: a conventional grassfed dairy farmer who raises endangered heritage cattle sustainably in New York…and happens to be a lawyer by day (Find her @NYFarmer) | Leia: a sustainable beef farmer from Ohio whose goal is to “show and tell” real farming (Find her @showandtellfarm or on Facebook) |
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When someone asks you how you farm, what’s your one sentence answer? |
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| I’m an old fashioned Upstate New York dairy farmer making a living off of the vast New York grasslands milking 70 registered Holsteins. | I raise feeder calves and beef cows. |
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How did you get started farming? Why do you do it? |
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| I’m the fourth generation to operate our dairy farm. I started when I was four years old with my own calves to feed. That was 53 years ago. Our herd of cattle has been in our family since the 1930′s when my late father bought them as purebred registered Holsteins. We can’t imagine life without our cows and our beautiful grasslands. | I came from a farming family, though my father quit when I was young. Since then, we’ve always dabbled in it. My husband’s family owns farms, though most of us make most of our income off of the farm.
When my husband and I were first married, we lived in a brand new house on about two acres. We were always helping out on the farms and there was an opportunity to buy this farm from a retired farmer. The house is over 160 years old, but the farm itself is beautiful and we wanted our children to grow up here. I’m not sure why we enjoy farming, except that everything about seems to have purpose and is sustainable. |
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What’s your educational background, including life experience with agriculture, that led you to where you are today? |
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| While my siblings went to agricultural colleges, I headed out to SUNY Oneonta and then on to the Fletcher School of Law and Diplomacy at Tufts University. While there I took courses at Harvard Business School in Agribusiness. Later in life I became an attorney and represent many dairy farmers. Throughout it all I never gave up working in agriculture. My experience is lifelong learning.
Dairy farmers have access to courses and learning from Cooperative Extension, online webinars, journals, peers and family members. The best education in dairy is hands-on. My father taught us to observe our cows telling us from childhood “Be the eye of the master cattle person”. My mother taught us as toddlers that “Agriculture is the basis of all other arts.” |
I was in 4-H in middle school and raised Angora goats and turkeys. In high school I was very active in FFA. Besides my learning in the classroom, I participated in numerous contests from Agronomy to Dairy Foods judging and Agriculture Sales to Public Speaking. I was even an Ohio State FFA officer for a year. In college, I studied Agriculture Communications. For the past six years, I have been very active in the Farm Bureau. |
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How many head of cattle do you care for? What breeds? |
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| 70 or so milking cows. Another 80 young stock. A few pet Belted Galloways. Hopeing to get some endangered Canadiennes (they are more rare than pandas with less than 500 left). | We currently have 29 feeders calves and three beef cows. They are a Black Angus mix. |
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What products do you sell, and to whom? (i.e., large companies, individuals, co-ops, etc.) |
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| The milk from our farm goes to a local independent cooperative of about fifty members. The cooperative hires a milk broker who finds short and long term markets for the milk. The milk usually either goes into New York City or Massachusetts.
We are part of the New York milkshed. Dean Foods controls a huge percent of NY’s milk so a percentage of our milk ends up in NYC as fluid milk (along with about 45% of the milk produced in NY) for the millions to drink. |
We sell cattle to local farmers to ‘feed out’ for beef. |
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What is the best food for a dairy cow? For a beef cow? |
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| I’m happy with cattle grazing. We bale thousands of bales of hay for the winter and fill a silo and ag bags with grass silage. We also do balage (the big round plastic bags packed with damp hay that ferments to a sauerkraut of hay). Sometimes we buy corn in the field from neighbors and make some corn silage.
“Best” might depend on the regional resources that the farmer has…grass, hay, corn silage, alfalfa. For us, it is native grasses: timothy, clover, reed canary grass and grasses that grow permanently for us without any re-seeding. (Permaculture) |
It is an assortment of things. We feed our beef cows hay (from a field that is specially planted with different grasses) in the winter and send them out to pasture in the summer. We also provide minerals in the form of a block that they lick on. (Because of the price of corn, etc. and the fact that we don’t have too much farmland for growing our own crops, this is the cheapest way for us to feed them.)
For our feeder calves, in addition to hay, they get a little bit of grain every day (~2#) to help them grow. In my opinion, the best food is a combination of hay/grass and grain. |
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What do you feed your cattle, and why do you choose that feed? |
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| We are fortunate to have a big land base of grasslands. The cattle are out grazing to get as much of their diet as possible from the grasslands. We also feed a commercial grain supplement that we buy from a cattle feed dealer here. I don’t know if there is one best choice, it depends on the resources that the farmers locality has. Some younger farmers might not have a big land base available and might end up buying a lot of the food for the cows | |
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How do you ensure your cattle stay healthy? |
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| Eternal vigilance. Better to observe the cows and look for even minor problems and try to head bigger issues off at the pass. Ration balancing is done by a feed company cow nutritionist who samples the forages (whether hay or silage) and determines how much grain and minerals might be a good supplement. Also, we do not push the cows to top production. | We check on them a couple of times a day and watch their behavior. (sick behavior is not moving very quickly, coughing, not eating, droopy ears, etc.) We make sure that they have something dry to lay on. We also will pull one out from the rest of it is taking too much abuse from others. They are dewormed and given immunizations just like one of our own children. |
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What do you do when a cow falls ill? |
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| There are many ways to treat a cow. We try to avoid medications if possible. I make my own linaments from peppermint and other essential oils. I also like vitamins as a boost for sick cows. However, if needed we will not hesitate to treat with top of the line antibiotic. Our veterinarian stays extremely current on new types of antibiotics and effectiveness for treatment. I want to see fast pain relief for a suffering cow.
All antibiotics come with a label that tells what the withholding time is for the milk. Milk from a treated cow is thrown out until a lab test indicates that it is antibiotic free. Almost all dairy farms have on-farm testing capability with “Delvo Test kits” so we can sample the milk and test it in a few hours time to determine if it is cleared for shipment. Every single load of milk that leaves a farm is tested every single time with a sample taken before the milk is loaded onto the big truck. |
When a cow falls ill we may give him/her a shot of an antibiotic and/or call the veterinarian for further assistance. If several of them are coughing, we will add some antibiotics to their feed for a few days. (Sickness spreads very fast in a barn. They don’t have good enough hygiene!) |
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What’s your goal: more milk or higher quality milk, or some balance of the two? For beef cattle: faster growth, more fat, more lean, or what else? |
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| Producing quality milk from cows who are not pushed is our goal. Dairy farmers try to strike a balance that is appropriate for the cows that they have. We also like to see our cows last for many lactations following the old-fashioned saying that “Gramma cows are the ones who will make you the money.” This means that rather than milking cows, and burning them out in a few lacatations, you keep them for many years. All the years they are with you, they keep on giving milk and calves.
To me, traditional is more profitable than the modern notion of pushing cows to maximize production, burning them out, selling them for beef and replacing them with a new 2 year old heifer. I’m old fashioned. |
For beef cattle, we want them to look “beefy”….but not fat. Fat gives the meat flavor and tenderness. But too much can ruin it. (Think of how much fat you want in your steak…farmers/ranchers try to raise their animals to consumer expectations.) |
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What steps do you take to reach the milk production/quality goal above? |
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| To get good production, we need good grass. We try to fertilize the fields of grass with manure to keep soil fertility high. Also, we try to maintain fencing on many acres so that the cows will have constant access to new fields of grass. (this means a lot of land and a lot of land taxes in Upstate New York). The cows are always on the move to new pastures in the spring, summer and fall. (Upstate New York transhumance). We try to balance the rations carefully with the help of sampling and a bovine nutritionist. | EVERY farmer is different. When buying calves, (400lbs.) we look for large skeletal frames. We keep their bellies full with the best quality food and just try to keep them healthy |
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Do you think your operation is “sustainable”? Why or why not? |
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| I used to think our farm is sustainable since it has been in business for almost 100 years. The barns are made from beams and wood hewn from the local woodlots. The cows are living quite well off of the grasslands. The grasslands sustain wildlife and great biodiversity, including some threatened bird species (Upland sandpipers and Harriers). We do not plant much, if anything, in the way of extra crops since the cows live off of the grasslands.
However, in modern times, the future might belong to the CAFO. A farm in reality has to make money in order to be sustainable. CAFO’s get big volume premiums and work with cheap immigrant labor. CAFO farmers rarely advocate for the average size grasslands farm in our state. Also, consumers and local food people have shown little interest in traditional dairy farms. Throughout the dairy price crash of 2009, only one environmental group said anything on behalf of the farmers. Local food people never appeared at any dairy hearings (this is in contrast to the numerous people who wrote in on the Tester Amendment and had online campaigns for Tester). So, we along with almost all of our grass based neighbors will probably be the last people to farm our grasslands unless things change. But yes, from a resource point of view, NY grasslands are extremely sustainable. |
I believe that our operation is “sustainable” because we fertilize our fields not just with manure, but others as well. We try to put back into the land what we take out. We also rotate crops and use other practices to prevent soil erosion. |
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Can a cow give milk on grass alone? |
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| I have only heard of one farmer around here who feeds only grass. We keep hearing complaints that his cows are too thin. It takes exceptional management to go only on grass and extensive grassland resources. Better have it all plus extreme cattle skills before you attempt to go with cows on grass only. | Yes, but not as much. (There’s that balanced diet thing.) |
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Do you think what cows eat affects the quality of the milk/meat? Nutritionally? In what way? |
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| Pasture milk (as they call it in Europe) has a different nutritional makeup. I think it is better for people since it is produced off of the land. I think of pasture milk as “the essence of grass.” However, it is difficult to get pasture milk as a consumer since the milk from many farms (grasslands and big cornfed CAFO’s) is all blended together, there is no differentiation or segregation. It would be nice if there were a label that traditional farmers who raise cows on grass could sell under.
We have put animals (beef bulls and chickens) who are grass-raised in the freezer and the meat is delicious. This is how I like to do things. However, I do not want to knock meat and milk from other farmers who may not have access to big grasslands. Some young farmers in this area do not have much land so they are buying corn silage to feed their cows to get started. |
What cows eat definitely affects the quality of meat. Meat cows raised a different way tastes and cooks different. I believe that there have even been tests on the nutrition aspect that proves a difference. The amount of fat (and taste) is obvious, but I’m not certain enough to say about nutrition difference. |
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Do you raise your own calves? If so, what do they eat? |
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| Yes we raise our own calves. We start them on pasteurized milk for the first month. I add Vitamix vitamins to the milk. I might also give them yogurt and kefir treats at night.
I gradually switch the calves over to 100% milk milk replacer (in contrast to the soybean based crap). I prefer to get them on the milk replacer as a convenience in just mixing that with water to save time. It seems like every minute of the day counts. They also get hay. If they are lucky they get Calf Manna, a calf grain that has their favorite flavors, anise and fennugreek added. |
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What do you do on your farm to foster environmental stewardship? |
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| Our farm is one of the last spaces of open pasturelands/wet meadow complex in our area. Thus, it is a nesting ground for grassland species that are becoming endangered as cow pastures are turned into subdivisions or scrublands. Birds like the upland sandpipers and Northern harrier hawks need this big open terrain with access to wet meadows and wetlands to survive. So, paying taxes on this big chunk of open space serves to help biodiversity in our area.
I try to stay current on studies concerning relationship between biodiversity and grazing. We have not timbered our forests to any extent, preferring to leave them natural. I am hoping to get a forester to tell us what else we might be doing. We believe in hiring professionals to help us with environmental stewardship. We have had ornithologists and Audubon Society check our lands to do bird species inventories and to advise on what we can do to keep the birds of special concern going. We are trying to set up a bluebird trail this spring as well. Also, we recently had a NYSERDA total energy audit by a professional auditor to determine what else we can do to cut our energy usage in the barn and milkhouse. We try not to spread manure anywhere near streams in order to maintain watershed quality. I belong to a Riverkeepers in our area and we fight for the big river that runs through our valley. We encourage beekeeping on our farm and have the best beekeeper around with forty hives in a very isolated part of the farm. We do not really plant much in the way of corn or other crops so we are not doing a lot of tillage. Some neighbors have been experimenting with no till. We have an onfarm recycling program. We recycle all cardboard, paper, glass and plastics. We are looking into BigFoot, a machine that will compact the plastic that is used to wrap bales of haylage. Our local Soil and Water conservation service recently purchased this machine for farmers to share. Lately, we have been purchasing local lumber, that is lumber made from local trees, rather than buying lumber that came in long distances. An Amish neighbor has a sawmill and has been custom making beams and other lumber for us for repairs of our 1860′s barn. Just managing to pay the real estate taxes on the land is a positive step towards fostering environmental stewardship. |
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Anything you want us to know about GMOs? |
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| I don’t know much about GMO’s other than the fact that the grain that we purchase is probably GMO. | |
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What is your farm’s relationship with the government? (i.e., do you need and certifications? Do you receive any subsidies? Anything else you have to give them or get from them that the average citizen doesn’t?) |
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| We do not get any certifications from the government. We have received MILC payments. This is a payment that occurs when the price of milk drops below a certain threshold. It has on occasion amounted to several thousand dollars per year. We do not participate in any of the payment programs to corn farmers because we are grass farmers. I prefer to have as little to do with the government as possible. |
Right now we don’t need any certifications, but we’ll see if the Ohio Livestock Care Standards Board changes that. We don’t receive any subsidies. We can ask the local Soil & Water office and the Extension office for information/advice if we want. We could even receive some financial assistance for projects, but we don’t. |
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What do you see as the future of farming/dairy farming in America? What concerns or hopes do you have for the future? |
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| I am hoping that someday the local food movement will go to bat for the dairy farmers of their milkshed. The trend here in NY is for fewer bigger farms that are mostly run on immigrant labor. Also, the trend seems to be away from grazing.
My hope is that urban people will become educated on farming, animal science and agriculture. However, most of the family dairy farms in NY will be gone probably by the time they get interested. |
I see farming continue to become more versatile and environmentally economical. However, as we continue to over regulate it will become more expensive and food will possibly become a bigger percentage of a family’s budget.
Before we make more rules to shut down “bad” farmers, we need to think about how it could possibly affect the “good” ones. Nothing is as simple as it looks. Same thing goes for trade. One thing affects another. Also, we are running out of land and we need to be more creative about how we use it. |
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What did I miss? Here’s your soapbox: |
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| I wish there could be an understanding of the farmer in the middle. These are the people who are doing the best that they can with a variety of practices. The local food people seem to be interested in dairy farms only if they are certified organic. The rest of us are just plain ignored.
My soapbox is that while the local food people talk a good game saying they want local farms, I have not seen them at dairy hearings or advocating in the media for dairy farmers to any meaningful degree. We dairy farmers are always alone at hearings. My further soapbox is that environmental groups seem to have zero interest in NY’s vast grasslands. Our grasslands are every bit a valuable resources (and a food producing resources) as the Adirondacks. Unfortunately the focus is primarily on parklands and wilderness as recreational countryside. There is not much interest in the working countryside. Throughout all the dairy tragedy of 2009 only one local food/environmental group seemed interested in NY: Otsego 2000 based out of Cooperstown. The rest were 100% dead stone cold silent, completely uninvolved, disinterested and mostly not returning phone calls from desperate dairy farmers. There is a long and beautiful history of dairy farming here in New York State, going back to the early 1800′s days of the bateaux when cheeses were carried to NYC and the later milk trains to NYC. Dairy is indeed the tradition of the countryside in Upstate New York and New England. It is extremely difficult for the average dairy farmer who is still reeling from 2009 to contemplate buying milk processing equipment and selling direct to consumers or getting shelf space in the retail stores. Yet, we are very much part of the NY food system, kind of the anchor tenant of NY agriculture. There is a very toxic disconnect between NYC food people and Upstate dairy farmers. We traditional dairy farmers are never or rarely invited to food conferences in NYC. In December of 2009, Manhattan Borough President Scott Stringer held his Food and Climate Conference in Manhattan. Though we dairy farmers generate 2 billion in milk sales, not one conventional dairy farmer organization was invited. The conference handed out literature condemning milk and meat, leading participants to believe that anything related to livestock is evil. In 2010, NYC foodshed conferences seemed to get better, and just beginning to invite some dairy farmers to attend. It’s a start. Most of the blogs that I see online that discuss dairy seem to focus solely on either organic dairy or the “evilness”" of CAFO’s, while ignoring the rest of us. I and other NY dairy farmers tweet frequently to big name food interested people on twitter, but a reply is fairly rare. (Katie note: follow #agchat for some great conversation.) We can only listen while people like Oprah and Ellen blast dairy for we or our organizations are never invited to tell about our lives in the media. Yeah, I’m bitter. NY lost record numbers of dairy farmers, dairy farmers bled and groveled, and even committed suicide in recent years with nary a peep from anyone. |
I highly recommend that you and your followers read Hal Herzog’s “Some We Love, Some We Hate, and Some We Eat“. Great read with many fascinating perspectives on the human/animal relationship. |
When I first met these gals on Twitter, I had the pleasure of a reply from a few others, neither of whom could be reached for the panel, unfortunately. Their comments on the question of grass vs. grain were after I visited a local farm from whom I had already been buying meat for a year, learned more and wrote this post.
- from @NYCULLA: “We have local cattle from old lines and they do really well on an all grass diet!” “Great post! Complicated issue no? Glad you got to #knowyourfarmer and learned why he had to supplement with grain!
” - from @MOOBLOGGER: “Grass is natural food for cows, grain is not. Grain as feed for cows is not sustainable or desirable.” “big ag…would agree with me if your government didn’t subsidize grain.”
What do you think? I’m excited to see animated, respectful, curious conversation happen in the comments today. Please know that no name-calling, cursing, or rudeness of any kind will be tolerated. It’s my blog and I’ll “delete” if I want to! 
It’s certainly okay to disagree, but let’s use our grown-up tone of voice and remember that unless you too are a cattle farmer, these ladies clearly have more experience than you in the field…literally. Let’s treat them as such.
UPDATE: My wrap-up and opinions of the entire series, including grass vs. grain, big vs. small, GMOs, and if I’ll make any changes in my shopping habits after interviewing a diverse array of farmers, is HERE.
Coming up…
Tomorrow’s panelists are both local to Grand Rapids, MI, where I live, and their farming practices are similar to one another but a bit different than today’s two farmers. Be sure to sign up for a free email subscription or grab my reader feed so you don’t miss any of the KS Farmers’ Panel this week. You can also follow me on Twitter, get KS for Kindle, or see my Facebook Fan Page.
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so excited about tomorrow! love that we both live in the same area
I am a bit surprised that the one farmer didn’t know a lot about gmo’s, but perhaps gmo’s are more of an issue to crop farmers?
[Reply to this comment]
Amy Reply:
April 26th, 2011 at 3:03 pm
I am very surprised and distrubed that “Lorraine: an organic (non-certified) grassfed dairy farmer who raises endangered heritage cattle sustainably in New York” stated, “I don’t know much about GMO’s other than the fact that the grain that we purchase is probably GMO.”
You can not claim to be organic even if you are not certified and feed GMO grain. That grain has had its DNA manipulated and GMO grain is sprayed with chemicals. This is not even close to being organic.
We raise a small herd for our own family’s meat supply as well as a milk cow all on grass/hay. Our cattle are not skinny. I do know a farmer that has skinny grass-fed. Grass-fed is about the quality of grass that you feed them. If you feed them junk weeds and do not take of your pasture and feed low quality hay in the winter, you are going to have skinny, nasty tasting beef. If you feed them good quality green hay/grass in the winter and allow them the rest of the year on good pasture, you will have nice looking cattle that taste excellent.
Yes, you may not get the milk production on grass only as you would feeding grain, but the quality and nutritional value of the milk of the grass-fed cow will be higher.
[Reply to this comment]
Katie Reply:
April 27th, 2011 at 7:13 am
Amy,
Katie
That is a good point – organic must be non-GMO, so it pays to make sure that when one interviews a farmer, they don’t allow that word to be tossed out without a whole bunch of questions following it. Thanks for pointing out!
[Reply to this comment]
Lorraine Reply:
April 28th, 2011 at 9:04 am
Hi, Amy, we are not “organic”, but rather operating off of our grasslands. Maybe that caption got put in the label on me, but to clarify, we work almost exclusively to feed our cows from the 500 acres of land that we have. We are close to organic in some ways because we try to refrain from using antibiotics if possible, and if used, just to treat a sick cow who the vet determines really needs that treatment.
[Reply to this comment]
Lorraine Reply:
April 28th, 2011 at 9:11 am
OK, I see that my first comment to Amy managed to go through (was not sure about technology here). Here in Upstate NY, we have several thousand professional dairy farmers, I have read that about 1 or 2% of them are certified organic. We are not and we choose not to be for one overriding reason. In NY, if a cow should become ill and you treat that cow with antibiotics, then you must get rid of the cow. Our philosophy is that once a cow enters the herd, we want her to live her life out with us. So, no, we are not “certified organic”. As to GMO’s I really can’t say that I know a lot about them. I have chatted with numerous farmers who are pro and con. I was overwhelmed with the amount of information out there. We don’t really grow crops on our farm, rather we focus on the grasslands and how we can best feed the cows from the grass. The quality of grass and hay depends on the year. In some years, our heavy clay soils are so wet, it is impossible to make great hay. Then we have to buy grain to balance the rations. Also, beef cows and dairy cows have different nutritional needs, so we have to be aware of what level of grain might be needed to sustain the dairy cows at various stages of their lactation. Anyways, just wanted to throw this in, will try to get to some of the other comments later.
[Reply to this comment]
Tonya Reply:
April 27th, 2011 at 10:45 am
Amy,
What breed are your cattle? How many times a day do you milk? Do you milk them dry or do you just milk out what you need? Have any pics of your cattle you could share? I’ve met very few dairy cattle that weren’t thin or trim. The ones with more condition were animals who’d been open &/or dry for awhile.
[Reply to this comment]
Amy Reply:
April 27th, 2011 at 11:42 am
Our beef cattle are Milking Shorthorn/Gelbvieh , and Charolais. Our milk cow, Hannah, is a pure breed Milking Shorthorn. We milk her dry. Her calves are feed her milk until 9/10 months old. I would love to share photos. I am unable to add photos to the comment section. Email me your email and I will send pictures.
[Reply to this comment]
Katie Reply:
April 28th, 2011 at 1:16 am
Amy, I could post pics on this post or a future one if you’d like! Like a cow yearbook, right?
And Tonya, how do the cows in my photo at the top look to you? They were the grown calves, if I remember right, not the milkers, so maybe that makes a big difference. Now I want to learn how to evaluate a cow… 
Katie
[Reply to this comment]
Amy Reply:
April 28th, 2011 at 9:23 am
Katie, You can use the photos however you want. Just send me your information and I will send you the photos.
[Reply to this comment]
Tonya Reply:
April 28th, 2011 at 11:17 am
Milking or not milking is absolutely a HUGE factor. Producing milk uses a ton of energy. I’m told by breastfeeding friends that it is a great way to lose baby weight. Similar for a cow, milking really trims you down.
Your pics are unfortunately from the front. Side & rear view are what are really needed. Left cow looks pretty plump from what i’d like to see for a milker. center & right cow are trimmer & more what i’d expect to see from a milking cow.
here’s some info on dairy judging: http://www.aphis.usda.gov/animal_health/emergingissues/compensation/content/judgingdairycattle.pdf
livestock judging is actually a great opportunity for youth. one of my former 4-H kids has travelled a lot thanks to it & just posted on her fb that her first job interview (via web cam) was easy since she is used to giving reasons to judges at livestock judging competitions.
[Reply to this comment]
Amy Reply:
April 28th, 2011 at 2:41 pm
I think it is very interesting that cattle raised with the average feed-lot diet (distiller’s grain, corn bales, corn syrup, etc.) and cattle raised on only grass have two different distinct looks to them. I believe that most people are not familiar with cattle that have a healthy grass-fed look . I do not think that you are able to judge them with current judging standards. Standards for judging have changed over the years. A great display showing these changes in the most common farm animals is at Living History Farms in Des Moines, IA. Our grass-feed beef cattle and milk cow look “old-fashioned” . It is a very interesting subject.
[Reply to this comment]
Tonya Reply:
April 28th, 2011 at 4:10 pm
Amy,
I agree that the “gold standard” of beef cattle judging has changed over the years. If Katie is ever at MSU & stops by the Pavillion she can trace the last several decades in championship photos. frame size has moved around.
can you explain the “healthy, grass fed look” to me because I do not see an unhealthy look when i see a feed lot cow.
[Reply to this comment]
Lorraine Reply:
April 28th, 2011 at 12:46 pm
Oops, I tried to post earlier on Amy’s comment. We are not certified organic, I’m not sure why I am labeled as organic. We are mostly “grassland” (not the same as organic). As to my lack of knowledge on GMO, its not an area that I have put a lot of time into investigating. I went to dinner with a group of Cornell agronomy and seed scientists experts and was blown away by their arguements pro and con. So, no, Amy, we are not ceritifed organic, have read that about 1 or 2% of NY’s several thousand dairy farmers are certified organic. I tried to reply back to you earlier this morning (April 28) but not sure if it went through so you might get this twice. Lorraine
[Reply to this comment]
It is always interesting to read about cattle farms; especially from women that make their living this way.
We raise dairy cows (and many other animals) on our farm, and our goals are homestead self-sufficiency. This lifestyle is both a lot of work and very rewarding.
I enjoyed this post very much.
[Reply to this comment]
What happened in 2009? What is the dairy tradgedy?
[Reply to this comment]
Tonya Reply:
April 26th, 2011 at 1:14 pm
the milk price crashed big time
[Reply to this comment]
Glad to read about dairy/cattle farmers here. My first “paying” job (I got paid in hay bales for my horse) was milking cows on my friends’ dairy farm. Many people never even think about those who work hard to produce food for the rest of us!
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BRAVO! I cannot wait to see all these posts & the responses from your readership Katie! I also appreciate this caveat,
“It’s certainly okay to disagree, but let’s use our grown-up tone of voice and remember that unless you too are a cattle farmer, these ladies clearly have more experience than you in the field…literally. Let’s treat them as such.”
I think the #1 problem between farmers & consumers is the communication disconnect & a consumer who is so far removed from the farm, they really have a tiny understanding of why farmers do as they do. Livestock are much different than pets. Farmers know their jobs. If you don’t understand something, ask about it & respect their years of experience & training when you receive the answer.
I hope everyone enjoys this series.
Tonya, BS, Animal Science, former MI dairy farmer
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Lorraine Reply:
April 28th, 2011 at 12:50 pm
Thanks for comment about talking to farmers with respect, Tonya. I visited my roomate from college in Los Angeles last year and went to a film industry party. When I said I aws a dairy farmer, I was surrounded by total strangers who started to tell me how they “don’t approve of how I probably torture cows” and beat down cows and all kinds of stuff! Its almost funny how they honed in on what they maybe saw in a movie or something! I was just attending the party to meet people and enjoy myself, and got a harsh picture of what some highly urban people imagine farmers to be! egads!
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Tonya Reply:
April 28th, 2011 at 1:25 pm
you’re welcome. I know first hand the blood, sweat & tears that go into farming. I’ve been there reviving a calf, saving a cow from milk fever, getting animals in from crazy weather, no vacations, milking on holidays, etc etc etc….hearing someone call milk or meat “crap” (which has happened in the comments here on KS directed at me) or even imply that it’s inferior really hurts me & I’m not even actively farming now. I like to use the analogy of a non parent telling a parent how they should be parenting to explain how it can feel hearing someone generations removed from farming telling a farmer how they should farm. farmers are doing the best they can to feed the world in a business with high inputs, low profit margin that requires long hours & hard work.
Have you connected with the #agchat group on twitter? they have a weekly chat on Tuesday nights. follow @agchat, @agchatfound & @mpaynknoper to get yourself started. There’s a great group of agvocates tweeting out ag facts & sharing day to day farm life on twitter, fb & by blogging. Resources here http://www.causematters.com/ag-resources/
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I love this article. My husband started our farm when he was fresh out of high school with a small tractor and a few beef cows. We now have 30 beef cows (most of which have calves), 2 bulls for breeding, 3 tractors, and all hay making equipment. We do grass fed as well- keeping the cows off the pasture in early spring and turning them out once the grass has time to grow (rotating them to keep the pastures healthy and growing). Then in the winter we feed them hay bales- this year will be the 1st year we will grow enough hay to sustain them through winter (we normally had to buy from another local farmer). We rent all of our land since land prices are so expensive around here, in total we farm around 150-200 acres including pasture and hay fields. We have actually discussed moving to upstate NY because land is MUCH cheaper up there.
I just think it’s very nice you are giving people a chance to “meet” real farmers, even if they aren’t in the same area- it gives an idea of how food is grown and the difference in food production. 1 farm is not going to exactly like it’s neighbors farm and I think this plants the seed for people to be more aware of where their food is coming from.
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My family farms in Nebraska, so your post piqued my interest.
I found what Lorraine said about “CAFOs” to be quite interesting. Will you be interviewing someone from a CAFO-type of operation in a future post? Although my family raises a small herd of beef cattle with similar practices as the farmers interviewed above, I believe that a feedyard operation (CAFO) can be “green” or sustainable. Additionally, a larger operation is much more equipped for feeding the masses. Keep in mind however, that I am also completely pro-small farms because I am one! 
I just think it is important to recognize the benefits of both sides of the issue. I don’t think that large operations (when managed efficiently, humanely, and resourcefully) are automatically bad.
The grass-fed vs. grain-fed beef is another separate issue that I don’t have time for today!
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Katie Reply:
April 27th, 2011 at 7:16 am
Abutton,
Yes, two on Thursday! I had a hard time deciding how to organize the various styles of farming, so I started with the sort of “middle,” then going to grassfed/organic tomorrow, then the other end of the spectrum (in my opinion, that is) last.
Thanks for chiming in!
Katie
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Lorraine Reply:
April 28th, 2011 at 12:57 pm
Hi Abutton Just a note on farm size. I’m not really into putting down one model over another. I had not paid much attention to the very large farms in NY until I learned a few disturbing things. First, the large CAFO style farms in NY receive much more money for the milk produced from their farms. I have spoken with numerous CAFO guys who tell me they have negotiated significant volume premiums for the milk from their farm. In my coop, we all get the same pay price irregardless of what we produce. We all pay the same “stop charge” for the truck to come to our farms. Last year, some of us tried to organize collective bargaining for all farmers in NY to get more for their milk, but some of the CAFO farmers told us that they were content with the big volume premiums they get and the rest of us could just go out of business. I rode to the dairy antitrust hearings with a few of the biggest guys in the state, milking 1,000′s of cows (Mexican workers doing the work) and they came right out and told me that the average family sized farm is just “window dressing”, that we could go out of business and they would still be able to supply the milk NY needs. Their thought though was that it would be good to have the countryside still dotted with mid-sized 100 cow farms to keep the consumers happy. So from an “advocacy” point of view, my goal is to look at the several thousand dairy farms in NY and ask what it would take to keep rural communities alive with numerous farms who buy on Main STreet, support the local machinery dealers , spend local and in many cases employ local people to help out. However, the very large CAFO dairies here contribute to the volume of milk needed to sustain the large manufacturers like Chobani who feed the people of the Northeast Corridor and beyond.
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Katie Reply:
May 1st, 2011 at 12:23 am
Lorraine,
Katie
The information you’re sharing in the comments here is adding so much meat to the post, and I, for one, am learning a lot! Thank you for this peek into real farming (and farm legislating) and your openness. We support you!
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First, I want to let Lorraine know that there are people out there who are interested and they are increasing in number. I (and many of my friends) went to a dairy hearing at the MDAR last year. I think interest in local food is increasing, and that the increase is/will be exponential, like cell division. I hope we (and you) can hang on until we reach critical mass–you’re doing such important work. People need to realize that what they pay at the grocery store does not reflect the true cost of food. I realize that we’re all struggling, but what’s really necessary, good food at a fair price to farmers, or 900 stations on cable TV? I don’t begrudge anyone their TV or other luxuries, but if I had to choose between the two, I’d pick the real food!
To the point Lorraine made about organic vs. conventional vs. what’s inbetween. I do prefer to buy organic, but not necessarily by certification. If I know a local farmer or of their practices, I’m happy to support them even if they are not certified organic. I know great farms around here (Cambridge, MA) that use IPM and I support them. I would rather support a local IPM farmer than one who is organic but half a world away. I wonder if there is a way to appeal to your local audience, though I’m sure you’ve done those things already. My husband and I buy raw milk from a local farm and we’re willing to drive an hour each way to get it! She also makes cheese, sells eggs, beef, and veal, all of which we purchase when we pick up our milk. We found her via her website online. It’s not all certified, but we like supporting her… She also sells to big milk producers (everything left over after the raw milk is accounted for) but it’s the raw milk/food product clientele that has the largest profit margin. Anyway, I know that’s all a lot of work and wouldn’t be possible for everyone, but I was thinking about it as I read the post, and appreciating how hard it must be to survive. Lorraine, I really enjoyed reading your responses–thank you so much for sharing and for all your hard work!
Also, I noticed that Leia didn’t answer a few of the questions and I found myself wanting the answers…
Thanks again to both of you ladies and to Katie for posting!
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Tons of links to connect you to ag in social media – blogs, twitter, FB, etc. – http://www.causematters.com/ag-resources/
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Great post! I’m looking forward to the rest of them.
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Lorraine (if you’re watching this post),
Some questions that may be of interest to the audience: How many acres of farmland do you own & how is it used? Almost all grazing? Do you rent additional acreage? How do rising fuel prices directly affect you? & can you elaborate on the milk price crash?
Something I want to point out to everyone…you will note that Lorraine’s milk is sold via a small co op that brokers a price for them & the fluid milk gets mixed with milk from numerous other dairies in NY state. So, when you see the milk jug in your grocer’s dairy case, don’t immediately think CAFO. There’s milk in there from several farms of all different sizes & management styles. while it may be easy to vilify a CAFO, when you really know what’s in your food, do you want to vilify Lorraine & small farmers like her who’s milk is in those jugs?
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Katie Reply:
April 28th, 2011 at 1:18 am
Tonya,
Katie
Absolutely, I’m glad you pointed that out specifically. In the next post (http://bit.ly/dQ2PiO) I was heartened to find out that my favorite local grassfed dairy farmer sells her milk to Country Dairy. Makes me want to seek out the gas stations that sell that milk just because I’ll feel connected! I’ve also often realized that the cows I see while driving the Michigan highways, at least outside and sometimes happily on green grass, have to be contributing their milk to to “local” supply, like Meijer milk and Country Dairy and Bareman’s and such. A happy balance, if you have to buy storebought.
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Tonya Reply:
April 28th, 2011 at 11:20 am
it always saddens me to read things like “if you have to buy store bought” because to me, that is cutting down a product & in this case a product that takes a lot of hard work as input.
another thing i’d like to ask the farmers who sell direct to consumers is, what did they have to do to get started with that side of their business, especially from a legalities standpoint.
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Katie Reply:
May 1st, 2011 at 12:30 am
Tonya,
You should probably ask this question on the second post, since I believe those are the only farmers who sell direct.
My quote about store bought milk is speaking to my audience, whom I encourage to buy as locally as possible and from the farmer when available. I myself buy store milk to make yogurt, so it’s not like I’m some elitist sitting on my high horse and looking down at the farmers who produce milk for grocery stores.
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Lorraine Reply:
April 28th, 2011 at 12:40 pm
Hi, again. I hope I mastered the technology of getting a response on here properly. We have about 500 acres of grasslands. These are mostly perennial grasses that come back year after year without us doing any new seeding. Some fields are just for hay, and others are pasture that one could not possibly run machinery on. A few of our neighbors plant corn, but we do not. Last year, though, we did buy corn silage from a retired farmer who makes his living selling corn silage each year as he no longer has cows.
So we are lucky to have a big land base for our herd. As to people saying they feed only grass, I would say it would depend on the region of the country you are in. For us here in harsh Upstate NY, unless you have an excellent summer, it is going to be hard to have enough high quality grass and hay without buying grain to meet the nutritional needs of DAIRY cows. We have a few pet Belted Galloway beef cows who did quite well through the winter with just good hay and a bit of grain.
The vast majority of us dairy farmers sell through a coop or directly to a processor. It really takes a lot of investment to bottle milk on the farm (only one person here does it) or make cheese. With safety issues, artisan cheesemakers are advocating for extensive training before beginning cheesemaking. So also another huge commitment.
About rising fuel prices, it still affects us because it takes tractors and machinery to make hay, and make silage. Also, all items delivered to the farm are now subject to a fuel surcharge. The farm cleaning supplies company told us they are getting hit with big surcharges, passing it on to us.
About the milk price crash of 2009, statistics I saw say the average loss was $1000 per cow that year. Imagine having 50 cows and having to put $50,000 on your credit card, or go to the bank to borrow more money, or take your entire non-farm paycheck and plug it into the farm. This is what we saw that year when milk prices crashed to unheard of low prices. That year I made so many calls, trying to talk with non-farmers to get support for the farmers and get either emergency relief monies, USDA loans, or even attorney general investigations into what was happening behind the scenes. I got such a bad feeling when I called food-interested people and they refused to say anything. Many said “well, I vote with my feet, I buy raw, or I buy organic ” and hung up. It was a devastating time. As a lawyer, I had families break up, selling the farm, selling off their woodlots, taking on debt. Some farm couples could not withstand the stress, choosing to sell out, divorce and go their own way. I had to call FarmNet (a counseling service for faremrs) a few times to help dairy farm children who were under extreme stress from watching the family farm being destroyed with the milk price crash.
That was 2009, milk prices have come up since then, but I can’t even convey how sad a time it was. The same thing happened in Europe resulting in major milk strikes and scenes of farmers pouring milk in the streets there.
2009 was a time of great suffering in rural NY.
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I do not believe that cows need grains. They may produce “less milk,” but that is okay — they produce higher-quality milk.
My farmer feeds his cows ONLY on grass. We’ve been buying from him for a year and are very familiar with his operation. We love his meat and his milk. He even USED to be a confinement farmer who did feed grain — and still feels grass-only is the superior way! I trust him. I believe him. He’s been a farmer all his life and has done it a variety of ways and has landed on grass-only as the best way.
I’ll enjoy my grass-fed and finished, thanks.
(And although I am happy to see alternatives to the typical CAFO, I am afraid that if too many farmers are kind of half-and-half — that is, they believe in feeding grain sometimes, they buy GMO grain, and so forth — even while doing other things that are “sustainble” that we will never see any real difference. The problem with sustainability lies in that there seems to be one system that really works, but if you change any part, it stops working. This, too, we’ve learned from our farmer and research we’ve done.)
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Rachel Ritter Reply:
April 27th, 2011 at 7:35 am
We also research our meat carefully. Our meat is mostly grass fed as well, though sometimes we supplement with a bit of grain finished from a local farmer. It’s tough to find exactly what you’re looking for. For example, we’d like to buy eggs from pastured hens whose supplemental feed contains no soy and no GMO corn or other GMO ingredients. Tough to find–the cost of raising hens like that is prohibitive for most farmers, who don’t have a market that will bear the price of such eggs.
I hear what Lorraine’s saying about supporting people in the middle–it’s terrible to be caught in the crossfire–but I also agree with Kate. If producers respond to consumer demand, then those of us who are interested and willing to pay for organic, grass-fed, non-GMO, etc need to be heard–by voting with our dollars. If we settle for less than what we want, then how will things ever change?
I believe that we need to use our voices and our dollars to influence the government and our neighbors. Increased consumer demand will create a market and make these commodities profitable and changes in government regulation will make it more cost effective and less of a red-tape nightmare for producers. This is a great example of how screwed up our food/agriculture system is… it needs to change on so many levels.
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Lorraine Reply:
April 28th, 2011 at 2:27 pm
I guess I was just so saddened by my experiences in 2009 when literally people I thought were interested in the working countryside just turned their backs if the farmer calling was not exactly what they wanted. It is impossible to turn the ship around in a short period of time. I say short period, because it was only a few years ago that consumers who came to farm hearings were demanding cheaper food. About 9 years ago, some of us in NY tried to institute collective bargaining for dairy farmers for an “over order premium” for all NY dairy farmers. The NYC officials such as Mark Green then NYC-Public Advocate, reached out to crush us, saying consumers needed still cheaper milk from Upstate NY. I was in Washington DC working on farm legislation and was so excited to meet some people from NYC till they told me they were there to be sure consumers had access to cheap food and that farmers were “getting rich”. So, although some consumers want certain things in their food, the vast majority still want it cheap and safe. For me…I will never forget 2009, the year I asked food-interested people for help and they shut the door in my face if I could not swear that I was exactly what they wanted in a farmer. I urge you to drive into the working countryside in some areas of rural NY where the wind is ripping through empty barns and the fields are devoid of activity. If only you could see what has happened, it would be my hope that you would consider going beyond only voting with your feet to actually tell leaders that you would like to see rural America as a place of vitality.
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Amy Reply:
April 28th, 2011 at 2:52 pm
It is very sad throughout our entire USA countryside of all the empty farmsteads. Here in NW Iowa, they are tearing them down weekly. It took time to get us to this point and it will take time to get us back to where we want or need to be.
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Lorraine Reply:
April 28th, 2011 at 5:21 pm
Wow, Amy, I wondered what it was like in other parts of the country. We in NY often think that other states are doing better than us. I just have to say it didn’t have to be this way. I distinctly remember as a child when the Secretary of Ag told rural America, “get big or get out” Then we had the Flanigan report that came out (I forgot under which President) stating it would be better for the US if farmers were removed from the lands. Ag and food policies take years to change. I think the hope is with the young people who are very interested. I have to say that within the past year or so I have seen so many young people who are ag/food curious, I think it is wonderful! This website was great. Maybe KitchenStew could do one on GMO’s and get some people who are expert on that topic involved?
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Katie Reply:
May 1st, 2011 at 1:05 am
Lorraine,
Katie
Good encouragement! GMOs are such a huge, controversial topic, but they’re on my “must tackle” list as well as the “deathly afraid of what I might learn…and what people might say about my conclusions” list too! Someday, for sure…
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Great post and of much interest for me.
I am selling my home in California and moving to the southwest to help with a woman owned grass-fed calf cow operation. We raise F1 Tiger stripes, a Braham/Hereford cross. We are organic all though not certified.
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Thanks for this series. It is good for farmers to have a voice that can be heard. The dairy farmer is right to a large degree, in that the relationship between farmer and consumer is disconnected. Most consumers (especially in big cities and suburbs) want cheap prices, and don’t care if farmers get zoned out. We all need to take an interest in zoning laws and regulations if we want to have healthy, local milk available. It is important that we get involved in any way possible.
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I was sorry to see Lorraine’s bitterness in what she sees as a lack of interest in small scale dairy and meat farms. I can’t speak to her part of the country, but in the deep South, I’d LOVE to find someone who is committed to feeding their animals grass and/or selling raw milk and cheese.
I simply can’t find farmers, though I’ve been asking around for two years now. I think that farmers need to embrace the internet in a way that they haven’t yet (not saying Lorraine isn’t, of course). Most farmers’ websites are three or four years out of date, no longer working, or their contact info is bad.
This is mostly how people look for stuff now: online. I know farmers are busy, but in order to find consumers for their products, they have to go where the consumers are looking!
Loving this series and can’t wait to see what’s next!
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Tonya Reply:
April 28th, 2011 at 1:29 pm
Leah, you can find farmers who blog, fb, tweet, etc organized by region/state here http://www.causematters.com/ag-resources/
To find farms in your area, try talking to your local extension office or farm bureau.
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Just a few comments from the back of the room.
1.) The word “Grassfed”, as it applies to beef, is regulated by the USDA. It is an animal raising claim, meaning, in the most simple terms, no grain ever. People often use the word in their advertising, but unless it’s on the label, ask a lot of questions. We worked hard to qualify for that label, and we make sure it’s on every package of our beef.
2.) Not just any cattle will do well on grass alone, and I’m betting that Lorraine’s registered Holsteins and Leia’s calves with large skeletal frames are going to have a tough time surviving on grass alone. Physically large animals very often need the added nutrition that grain provides. To deny them that would be cruel.
3.) We all love to hate GMOs, but we’re all buying them and using them whether we like it or not. In 2010, 93% of our nation’s bean crop, 86% of our field corn crop, 93% of our cotton crop and 95% of our sugar beet crop were transgenic. Anything beyond those percentages were grown under contract. Unless you hold one of those contracts, you’re getting GMOs.
4.) Katie @MAM was fortunate enough to find a local grass-finisher. Ask him how long it took him to get his herd off of grain. A good, grass-adapted herd takes years to put together, and he’ll probably appreciate your interest!
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sara Reply:
April 28th, 2011 at 4:04 pm
i’m still newer to the whole healthy eating thing, so can you clarify for me on gmo’s:
if something is labeled organic, that makes it gmo free correct? I ask because I buy organic corn and tortilla chips, and organic cane sugar. we don’t eat beans or soy so those are moot points for me
a big part of the reason i buy the organic corn, other produce, sugar etc is because i thought that meant it was gmo free….
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Katie Reply:
May 1st, 2011 at 1:07 am
Certified organic must be no-GMO, you are right. Must be certified, though…
Katie
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Katie Reply:
May 1st, 2011 at 12:36 am
Patty, Thanks for coming to the front of the room!
1. That “grassfed” is regulated is a totally new one on me! They don’t regulate “natural” yet, so I never thought that grassfed would have been on the radar. Kind of cool that it is, actually, and that it has to be 100%.
2. Wendy at the Local Cook read a book called “The Accidental Farmer” about a guy who bought all the wrong breeds for grassfed and then just “let nature take its course” and did exactly what your last sentence describes…and that’s exactly what Wendy thought of the book. Got to have the right breeds to make grassfed-only work; makes sense to me!
3. Seeing the percentages in black and white makes me want to cry. All beans? I guess buying organic beans is actually worth it then…if GMOs are as much of a problem for our health as some say. That’s one subject haven’t researched hardly at all, but my personal opinion is just that we shouldn’t be messing with DNA since we cannot predict the long-term consequences – more for the crops than the current eaters – but that’s just my gut!
Please stick around and teach us more!
Katie
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The USDA’s Agricultural Marketing Service oversees both the National Organic Program, and the verification services (think Certified Angus, Humanely Handled, Naturally-raised, etc.) These programs are supposed to provide some level of protection for consumers, but the Grassfed standard, for instance, has a loophole big enough to drive a grain truck through – you can feed them grain in order to “ensure the animal’s well being at all times”. This is why consumers are confused, and why we jump up and down and yell “No Grain EVER!”
“The Accidental Farmer” is now using Murray Grey cattle, which are excellent grass-finishers. We try to let nature take its’ course, but Mother Nature can be harsh. We often intervene.
GMOs were developed largely in response to demand for lower pesticide use. Generally speaking, GMO crops require fewer man-made chemical defenses. In many instances, we’re making the choice between genetically-modified foods, heavily sprayed foods, or prohibitively expensive foods. I’m not too concerned with the direct human health impact of GMO’s, but like you, I’m very concerned about the long-term environmental consequences of our actions.
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Rosann Reply:
May 3rd, 2011 at 12:08 am
This comment about the lack of concern with direct human health impact of GMOs drives me crazy!!!!!!!!!!
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Patty Reply:
May 3rd, 2011 at 1:58 pm
Oh wait! I didn’t mean to drive you crazy. It’s just that I haven’t seen any credible evidence that GMOs cause any direct health threat in and of themselves. I can give you a long list of serious problems that I think exist with GMOs and Monsanto in particular, but I haven’t seen anything that would lead me conclude that GMO corn would cause irreparable harm to human DNA, for instance. We’ve (Americans) been feeding GMOs to horses for the last thirty years, and I don’t know of any negative health impact that wouldn’t also be seen with open-pollinated corn (i.e. omega-6 overload). Round-up, the herbicide used in conjunction with most GMOs in the US has been shown to be an endocrine disruptor, causes chromosomal aberrations in human liver cells, and is toxic to amphibians.
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This entire series is excellent. Thank you!
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