I thought I was going to have to rescind/delete one of my favorite posts, one that readers reference time and time again. Talk about a reason for a tissue and a pity party!
My three favorite natural green cleaners include baking soda, hydrogen peroxide and vinegar. I received an email recently asking me to rescind my information about the hydrogen peroxide/vinegar duo for sanitizing countertops. (“What??” I thought! I’ve been counting on that for years!)
Here is an excerpt from the well-meaning email:
In a former job, I sold industrial chemicals and as a part of that job, taught sanitation and disinfection seminars to professional cleaning staffs.
I must caution you that your suggestion about using vinegar and hydragen peroxide will not kill germs. Germ killing is strictly regulated by the EPA. If you say that a solution will kill germs it has to be tested and certified by the EPA. Aside from chlorine bleach there is a hospital grade disinfectant that is highly concentrated to be mixed at 400 ppm (parts per million) of ammonium quartenary. You can also buy this premixed at janitorial supply houses. It is not toxic in its dilute forms. There is also an iodine phenolic solution that will work but is mainly used in surgery and not in home cleaning. There are even test strips to determine the level of ammonium quarternary to make sure that it is at 400 ppm. Anything else is just “feel good” remedies which are quite often dangerous, but at the very least they don’t disinfect which is dangerous if you think it has been disinfected.
I have a science major including chemistry and micro biology. You should discourage and not print home made recipes for cleaning products because it will cause totally unqualified people to experiment with chemicals which is highly dangerous.
My quick response to him:
What about tea tree oil as a disinfectant, and rubbing alcohol? Is it just an old wives’ tale when people sterilize their needle for getting out a splinter with rubbing alcohol? There have to be more than 4 things in the world that will kill bacteria. What is hydrogen peroxide good for, then?
He replied:
As to sterilizing a needle, the correct answer is with direct heat with a match or over the stove. It is true that alcohol will kill some germs but is not a broad spectrum disinfectant. Peroxide oxygenates the wound but if you go to a hospital or urgent care with a cut that needs to be stitched, they will use the iodine phenolic that I previously mentioned. It is for human contact, the ammonium quartenary that I mentioned is for use on hard surfaces only.
Well harumph, thought I. The more I thought about it, the more I started to wonder if this fella’s information could possibly be correct. What about the claims plastered all over waterless hand sanitizers? Time to waste spend some quality time doing a Swagbucks search. Here is what I found:
Sources that say an alcohol-based sanitizer will kill germs:
Sources that say hydrogen peroxide is a sanitizer:
- Associated Content
- Wikipedia
- Environmental Protection Agency:
“Hydrogen peroxide, well known as an ingredient in disinfectant products, is now also approved for controlling microbial pests on crops growing indoors and outdoors, and on certain crops after harvest. This active ingredient prevents and controls bacteria and fungi that cause serious plant diseases. Hydrogen peroxide breaks down rapidly in the environment to oxygen and water, and is not expected to cause adverse effects to humans or the environment when users follow label directions.” EPA - EPA first registered hydrogen peroxide and peroxyacetic acid as antimicrobial pesticides in 1977 and 1985, respectively. Both chemicals are approved only for indoor use on hard, non-porous surfaces. Use sites include:
- agricultural premises;
- food establishments;
- medical facilities;
- home bathrooms;
- dairy/cheese processing plants;
- on food processing equipment; and
- pasteurizers in breweries, wineries, and beverage plants.”
EPA
- Hydrogen peroxide was successful in killing bacteria including E. coli in this study in the Journal of Food Science.
- The United States Food and Drug Administration (FDA) has classified hydrogen peroxide as a Low Regulatory Priority (LRP) drug for use in controlling fungus on fish and fish eggs. (from Wiki)
So. I’m pretty satisfied with that, and even if my emailer’s information is true that it’s not a “broad spectrum” germ killer, I’ll just have to live with some germs. I’ll teach them manners, I suppose, before I go back to bleach in my home.
New Lessons on Hydrogen Peroxide
- Must keep it in an opaque bottle! I finally tried my small spray bottle sprayer directly on the brown peroxide bottle, and it worked just great. Go spend the buck at Target and get one for yourself!
- Don’t use peroxide on cuts as a first line of defense – it oxidizes the cells and makes healing more difficult (this is from a nurse at my child’s pediatrician’s office). “Whoops” from me! I was absolutely relying on H2O2 as a “safe” and painless cut cleaner. Just soap and water, they say. Alrighty then…
In other news, I’m going to have to try hydrogen peroxide on my windowsills, which have mildew and/or mold growing on them because my house fogs up every time I cook! Blech. We got a quote on new windows or putting our house up for sale. (Lord, which one do You want us to do?)
Totally random find: I liked Tempur-Pedic’s note about resisting mold and mildew at their site. They have a 90-day trial you may want to check into if you don’t LOVE your mattress as much as I love mine! Truly the best purchase we ever made was to invest in a quality mattress…I only wish it was organic so I didn’t worry about the flame-retardant nature. ;(
For now, I’m off to add a disclaimer to my cleaners post so no one sues me for telling them to “mix chemicals”!!! *raspberries* to red tape…
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Photo from gemsling
I have a science major including chemistry and micro biology. You should discourage and not print home made recipes for cleaning products because it will cause totally unqualified people to experiment with chemicals which is highly dangerous.
Hungry for more? Related posts:
I think this dude was just a little bored, I wouldn’t take his criticism too seriously. He needs to find a real hobby!
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Twitter: kanmurimori
// Nov 24, 2009 at 11:37 pm
Funny how an organization can prevent you from saying what you want. Isn’t America about freedom of speech?
The only reason I see for a person to discourage people from using their homemade products is to sell more industrial chemicals.
kanmuri´s last blog ..Japanese Men Should be Afraid
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I’m glad you didn’t rescind your information, especially since you provided links to back up your opinions. It’s not like you sat down one day and said, “Hmmm, I think hydrogen peroxide just might do the trick at disinfecting, so I’ll blog about it!” You researched it and tried it out. So it might not kill every bacteria out there. Oh well. It’s still better than exposing your family to dangerous chemicals found in other cleaning products.
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Good for you for checking this out rather than rolling over.
I know some of the bigger sites (like Mercola) have “moles” who come from who knows where, but probably from big corporations, who try to create dissent & question what is being said there. Likely someone has a search out & when they found the words “germ killing” on your site they thought they’d see if you’d roll over.
The best dressing for a cut is Manuka honey. Do a Google check. It is now being used in hospital in NZ, Australia, & the UK. It actually kills MRSA. (Regular honey has some of these properties too, if it is natural honey & not what is being sold at a grocery store, but Manuka is much more effective.) Going to an ER & following the protocol the author of your letter outlines ends up in infection much of the time these days.
There are many good, natural ways to clean that are frugal too, but the corporations don’t want that info shared as it cuts into their bottom line. Why bother buying the “Green” line of products at high cost when you can make them at home? But if people think of it as difficult then they are more willing to trust the “experts” in these matters.
I just found this on killing mold/mildew naturally: http://www.care2.com/greenliving/three-ways-to-kill-mold-naturally.html
And i totally agree with you on the “co-exist” with germs. Too many folks are too concerned with killing them all. Of course, safety is required in some areas like handling poultry, but in general it is much better to build up our own immune systems rather than worry about germs.
Thanks for your good, investigative writing. Keep up the good job.
Kathryn´s last blog ..Please . . .
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Katie Reply:
November 25th, 2009 at 10:07 pm
Kathryn,
Honey. I am absolutely fascinated. And we keep trying to make more chemicals to treat our chemicals.
Thank you for the info – I hope to do more on raw honey someday, and Manuka is now on my list to research!
Katie
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If we were getting sick from the homemade cleaners not doing their job, do you think we’d be writing about how wonderful they are? I’ve only been doing homemade’s for one year and haven’t had ANY problems yet. I think God’s put resources here for us – nourishing foods, natural cleaners, etc – He gives us what we need.
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Katie Reply:
November 25th, 2009 at 10:07 pm
K,
Katie
Awesome to hear a positive testimonial!
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This is all great information and I still stand by my homemade cleaners.
Jackie at Lilolu´s last blog ..Heartwarming
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Gee Wiz, does this guy really believe we can no longer think for ourselves? I’ve been using naturals cleaners for four years now and nothing bad has happened to our family. I cook every. single. day. Raw meats and raw milk. My kiddies play outside in the dirt, touching bugs and worms and other things. And I always clean with baking soda and vinegar and hot water and dishsoap.
We’re fine and we will always be fine without cleaning chemicals.
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Katie Reply:
November 25th, 2009 at 10:16 pm
Tina,
Well said! Katie
Yes, sister!
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We have used homemade cleaners for years now with no problems. Mostly vinegar with GSE and a little tea tree oil. I think if we work to abolish all germs from our homes our immune system becomes weak. But that’s just my opinion not an educated fact. I know that my friends with germ phobia seem to always be sick while my kids have a runny nose ocassionally. Eating well helps too.
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Katie Reply:
November 26th, 2009 at 12:13 am
Julie,
Thanks for a another great success story to encourage us all! Now I’ll demonstrate my ignorance/humility: what is GSE? Welcome to KS – Katie
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Kathryn Reply:
November 26th, 2009 at 2:58 am
Grapefruit seed extract. Wonderful product. You should check that one out, too. (It is food grade, but quite bitter.)
Kathryn´s last blog ..Mostly just pics
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Definitely still use the peroxide on a puncture wound, though. It oxygenates the wound, helping prevent anaerobic ickies like tetanus from thriving. (Got this info from Dr. Sherri Tenpenny in her vaccine video.)
Rachel R.´s last blog ..Things I Don’t Understand About the Dresses-Only Movement
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Katie Reply:
November 28th, 2009 at 12:45 am
Rachel,
Good to know- so punctures different than scrapes is how I understand your advice, ye?
Thanks!
Katie
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I think the guy is right about how to kill a broad spectrum of germs; however I’m not concerned about “germ” killing anyway. I don’t want my house to be a hospital. I think a sterile evironment is unnatural and not how humans are supposed to live. I don’t buy industrially produced foods. That’s how I keep super bugs out of my kitchen. Other than that, I use the homemade lye soap that my grandma made for her kitchen use. It cleans my kitchen to sparkling and the tallow mosturizes my hands. There most likely are bacteria on my countertops and I don’t care one bit.
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I stumbled upon your blog and love it! I just wanted to add something about the whole disinfecting thing…I use essential oils. I have found a company that has their oils certified pure therapeutic grade and has the science to back it up. There are oils out there that kill bacteria when diluted 10,000 times! You may want to consider adding alittle oil to a spray bottle of distilled water. I use it on my counter tops and sinks around the house. I spray my dish rag at night after doing the dishes and don’t have to deal with that gooey/smelly rag anymore. I also use some essential oils instead of decongestants and for migraine relief. It has been a HUGE blessing to me and my family. Any one interested in learning more can go to my blog http://www.thecoil7.blogspot.com where I have a link to the website for the essential oils, or shoot me an email and I will get in touch with you!!!
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Katie Reply:
December 7th, 2009 at 2:41 am
Alisse,
It is on my list to learn more about essential oils. I have a friend who uses them for everything and will talk me through it when I get time. I do have a spray bottle of tea tree oil and water now; I’ll have to try the stinky rag trick! I love that there are things in nature that can already do everything the chemists in the labs are cooking up!
Katie
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Your reader was right in one sense – the EPA does strictly regulate pesticides and the claims that are made. If a manufacturer makes pesticidial claims, then the product must conform to EPA regulations. So, for example, the Q-tips – antimicrobial that contain triclosan, which can be a regulated pesticide depending on how it is use, don’t make any claims to killing bugs on other things, just that the Q-tips will stay fresh. So, the Q-tips in this case aren’t pesticidial products. Similarly, if you look at vinegar or hydrogen peroxide sold in stores, they don’t make any claims that would subject them to regulation as pesticides by the EPA (although the hydrogen peroxide does make claims that subjects it to regulation as a medical product by the FDA). That doesn’t mean that the products don’t kill germs.
He is also right that there are certain formulations that have been approved for food safety in a commercial kitchen.
And you may want to be careful how things are worded- sanitize v. disinfect, etc. but he mostly just seems a bit cranky.
Most of his quotes have to do w
Jennifer Taggart, TheSmartMama´s last blog ..What’s wrong with natural deodorants? You may be surprised to find aluminium.
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well i think your site is fabulous…and it’s obvious you have done your reasearch.
personally i think being exposed to germs is our best line of defense…
shelle ´s last blog ..A Giveaway!
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