Kitchen Stewardship | A Baby Steps Approach to Balanced Nutrition

Seeking the Perfect Homemade Whole Wheat: Sweet and Simple (no. 1)

January 5th, 2011 · 52 Comments · Recipes

seeking perfect ww bread button2

Welcome to the inaugural recipe in the Seeking the Perfect Homemade Whole Wheat Bread series here at Kitchen Stewardship!
First, I will share the print version of the Kimball family’s favorite to date. Scroll down to follow along with me during my venture into finding the perfect whole wheat bread recipe.

Katie’s Version of the Whole Wheat Bread Recipe
Print
Recipe type: Bread
Author: Katie Kimball
Ingredients
  • 1 c. room temperature water
  • 1/4 c. coconut oil
  • 2 Tbs. honey
  • 2 1/2-2 3/4 c. hard red whole wheat flour
  • 1 3/4 tsp. instant yeast
  • 1 tsp, salt
  • (optional) 3/4 tsp. vital wheat gluten (omit 1/4 c. flour)
Instructions
  1. Put all ingredients in a bread maker and let the dough cycle run.
  2. Form into a loaf in a greased pan or about a dozen rolls and allow to rise until doubled, usually no more than 30-45 minutes in a cool house.
  3. Bake in a preheated 350 degree F oven for 25-30 minutes.
  4. Cool on a wire rack.
Notes

Soaked Method:
Substitute 2 Tbs. yogurt whey for 2 Tbs. of the water.
Mix the oil, water, honey and flour together either by hand or in the bread maker, allowing it to run for a few minutes, just enough to mix the dough.
Unplug the bread maker and allow to sit at room temperature 12 hours or overnight.
Add all of the remaining ingredients to the bread maker and start the dough cycle from the beginning.
When the dough has had time to rise, i.e., when the dough cycle is finished or about a half hour before the end, remove the dough and form your loaves or rolls.
Bake as directed above.


In December, I fiddled with this bread recipe, testing it a number of different ways to find out how flexible it was. I still might try a few more, but it’s definitely worthy of publishing.

The recipe was shared with me by Kathrine Wehrung of Wild Flours Bakery, who started with this recipe from Bread Beckers but shared with me that she used butter instead of oil and cut out one of the “dough conditioners.” That gave me a place to start to be sure.

Original Recipe: Slightly Sweet but Very Simple Whole Wheat Bread

2 cups hot water
1/2 cup oil
1/2 cup honey (may use 1/4 cup)*
5 cups flour
3 1/2 tsp. instant yeast
2 tsp. salt
1/2 Tbs. lecithin (optional)
1/2 Tbs. gluten (optional)

Combine water, oil, and honey.  Add 3 cups of flour, yeast, salt, lecithin, and gluten.  Mix thoroughly. Add the remaining flour and knead until smooth and elastic (about 10  min.).  Let rise until double.  Shape into loaves or rolls, place in greased pans, and let rise again.  Bake at 350 degrees for about 30 min.

Directly from Bread Beckers

What is a Dough Conditioner?

Dough conditioners, if you’re not a bread baker (kind of like me; I’m just a poser), are things added to the dough to help give it a nicer rise and fluffier, more airy texture in the finished product. They are called for particularly with 100% whole wheat bread, which can struggle against the weight and sharpness of the bran especially and often ends up on the dense side.

Dough conditioners include added gluten (the protein naturally in wheat that allows for rising action; gluten looks like flour and can be found in the baking section of most large grocery stores), lecithin (usually from soy, naturally found in things like eggs), citric acid (a form of Vitamin C) or ginger (just the powdered stuff like you might use in Chinese cooking or gingerbread). Some recipes call for a commercial blend of dough conditioners, many just require added gluten, and some call for all four.

Tammy’s Recipes has an excellent breakdown of what’s what and why you might want to use them in her post on bread dough conditioners. After much research, she is of the opinion that the dough conditioners are a positive addition and not harmful. I am still wary of soy lecithin, just because it’s soy – if it’s in eggs, why not add an egg? I also frown at added gluten, for a couple reasons:

  1. By taking something out of the wheat and adding extra, I feel like that’s pushing the limits of “whole foods” and “as God created them.” Even though gluten is already in wheat, in nature there’s a certain ratio. I don’t really want to overdo that.
  2. Gluten also has been pegged as causing many health issues lately, quite possibly because we’re consuming too much of it for various reasons, one being its addition to whole wheat bread. I wrote about my lessons on gluten previously if you want to hear more about why I’m wary.

Here is a touchpoint post on how I bake bread: Katie’s Basic Bread Baking Techniques (or lack thereof) If you have questions about any of my processes or choices, you’ll find answers there!

Version One: No Added Gluten

Kathrine had also told me that she used her bread machine to knead the dough and then put it into pans for a second rise. I’m all about using machines to help me out, so I’ve always let the breadmaker do the work on this one.

I made half a batch (one loaf) using:

  • freshly ground hard red wheat
  • refined coconut oil, unmelted, for the fat
  • only 1/4 cup honey
  • zero added gluten. My breadmaker starts with 25 minutes of warming the water, so since coconut oil has a melt point of 76 degrees, I figured it would work out okay.

However, as I feared, the dough lost its rise in the pan right at the end of baking time and collapsed a little, making a more or less flat (albeit delicious) loaf of bread.

(My apologies for the lack of pictures of my awesome failures. They would be fun to poke fun at, I’m sure, but these few days were during an unfortunate period between the death of one camera and the delivery of the new one!)

Kimball Family Bread Ratings:

  • Whole Grains: 5
  • Softness: 4
  • Flavor: 4
  • Workability: 4
  • Good Rise: 2
  • Easy Recipe: 5
  • Bonus points:

Total Score: 24/30 (view the bread rating system and all recipes HERE)

Version Two: Soaked Without Gluten

The very next day I tried the same ingredients but with a soaking adaptation.

To soak, I allowed the breadmaker to mix the oil, water, and honey with all the flour minus 1/4 cup. I subbed in a Tablespoon of whey for a bit of the water.

After leaving at room temperature overnight, I add the remaining ingredients and proceed with the dough cycle on the bread machine from the beginning again.

This loaf turned out basically identical to the first, a little flat.

Kimball Family Bread Ratings:

  • Whole Grains: 5
  • Softness: 4
  • Flavor: 4
  • Workability: 4
  • Good Rise: 2
  • Easy Recipe:5
  • Bonus points: +2

Total Score: 26/30 (view the bread rating system and all recipes HERE)

Why Flat?

Added gluten is there for a reason. In some ways, it was good for me to see that it made a difference in a rather obvious way.

Other than trying it with the gluten, or part of the gluten called for, I thought I might also add about 1/4 cup (per loaf) of extra flour to see if it just needed more bulk for structure.

Version Three: As Written with Slightly Less Gluten

I decided to see what the loaves should look like with the gluten before I fiddled any more, so I again made a half batch, with the 1/4 cup honey and the refined coconut oil. I used 3/4 tsp. gluten, which is about 1/4 tsp. less than what I should have used.

The dough rose beautifully and I had a perfectly gorgeous, airy loaf after 25 minutes of baking.

Kimball Family Bread Ratings:

  • Whole Grains: 5
  • Softness: 4
  • Flavor: 4
  • Workability: 5
  • Good Rise: 5
  • Easy Recipe: 5
  • Bonus points: -1

Total Score: 27/30 (view the bread rating system and all recipes HERE)

Version Four: No Gluten, Added Flour

I tested my theory of adding a bit of flour next with a quarter cup but left out the gluten. I soaked the dough just like I did in version two. My needs that day were for rolls, so I do need to try that again with the same loaf pan as the first version so I can have a valid comparison, but the rolls rose wonderfully and were delish.

slightly sweet bread - buns

Kimball Family Bread Ratings:

  • Whole Grains: 5
  • Softness: 5
  • Flavor: 4
  • Workability: 4
  • Good Rise: 4
  • Easy Recipe: 5
  • Bonus points: +2 for soaking

Total Score: 29/30 (view the bread rating system and all recipes HERE)

 

 

More Tests to Run!

I still want to fiddle with this recipe. I do need to try the no-gluten-added-flour (version four) in a loaf pan, for sure, and I kind of wonder what would happen if I toss in an egg. Would I need to reduce the water or add flour? Would adding milk in place of some water, or using more whey for soaking (sometimes I make bread with 100% whey), cause a softer loaf or better rise?

I’ll also be fiddling with the rating system a bit as I’ve just had time to read the extensive comments on yesterday’s post, but not yet to apply them all! My work is cut out for me, folks. GAME ON.

(I am so inadequate for this…but it’ll be fun!)

I also just grabbed a book by Peter Reinhart, a true bread-baking guru, from the library today, and I’m already learning things I didn’t know. I cannot wait to try some of his recipes and techniques!

Want to Play?

As much as I’d love to try every variation multiple times, with different equipment, soaked and unsoaked, ETC., we just can’t eat that much bread!! If you’d like to dabble in baking, I’d love it if you’d play along, so to speak. I’m not going to ask anyone to sign up or commit, and I don’t want to send anything extra to your inboxes, but I promise a new recipe each Tuesday for everyone to play with!

If you try the recipe, either as written or with some changes, let us know! Leave a comment with what you did and how it turned out.

As is my walk with Christ, this is an unfinished project for sure. I’m going to tweak the bread rating system between now and next Tuesday, which means I’ll be updating this post with the new system as well. Thank you for all the great comments yesterday, and welcome aboard for the ride!

———————————————

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Kitchen Stewardship is dedicated to balancing God’s gifts of time, health, earth and money.  If you feel called to such a mission, read more at Mission, Method, and Mary and Martha Moments.

See my full disclosure statement here.

 


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52 Comments so far ↓

  • Bethany W

    Katie – do you have the details on how to do this bread recipe WITHOUT a bread machine? I have a bosch mixer to help me knead, but I’m not sure about how long and rising times (etc).

    [Reply to this comment]

    Kathrine W. Reply:

    Hi Bethany,
    I use a Bosch mixer now instead of a bread machine. I let the Bosch knead the dough at speed 1 for about a minute, then put it to a 3 for about 10 minutes, check to see if it still tears, if it does, let it knead a bit longer. Rising times will vary with the temperature of your kitchen. You want a warm but not hot place. It should rise about 45 minutes the first rise and approximately an hour to an hour and a half the second rise. Hope this helps! Let me know if you have anymore questions!
    Kathrine W.
    Wild Flours

    [Reply to this comment]

    Laura (Maine) Reply:

    I make our 100% ww bread in our Bosch Universal Kitchen Machine.

    I put 8c fresh ground WW flour, 1/2 sucanat, 1 Tbs salt and 2 Tbs SAF yeast in and start it on 1. Once it’s mixed well I pour 1/2 c melted coconut oil over top while running. Lastly I add 3 c HOT tap water, again while running on 1. I let it run on 1 for another 14 minutes. When done I shape using the letter fold method, put into pans and then into the oven. I turn the oven onto the warm setting for 30 sec to get a little warmth going. After the 30 sec. I shut off the oven and turn on the oven light. 1 hour later (thisw is the only rise) I turn on the oven to 375. After 25 minutes I tent the bread with foil and cook for an additional 20 minutes.

    I find that the Bosch, SAF yeast and the letter fold combined give me a consistenly great product.

    Hope this is helpful,

    [Reply to this comment]

    Vanessa Quigley Reply:

    I want to try your recipe. How much sucanat? Also, how many loaves? Could I double this in the Bosch? Thanks.

    [Reply to this comment]

  • Wendy (The Local Cook)

    I use a KitchenAid mixer. I proof the yeast in a warmed-bowl, then mix everything using the dough hook, let rest 15 minutes, then knead for just a few minutes until it starts coming away from the sides of the bowl and it’s smooth and elastic. Let double (usually takes an hour); punch down, shape into loaves, let double again, and bake. Pretty much all the recipes I’ve found are the same way.

    [Reply to this comment]

    Katie Reply:

    Thanks, Wendy!

    [Reply to this comment]

  • Gi

    I have really enjoyed your website! I soak my own bread and have been doing it for awhile. Recently I have been running tests myself to see if I use another acid to soak with since I wanted my bread completely dairy free. Lemon juice as the acid does not make good bread. At least mine always turns out poor. But Apple Cider Vinegar as the acid works great! Just wanted to comment in case anyone else needed that info.
    Thanks again for your love of the kitchen!
    Gi

    [Reply to this comment]

    Julie Reply:

    Gi~

    Thanks so much for posting that apple cider vinegar works well! I was just about to pose that same question since I don’t always have whey available and ACV is easier to come by. So thanks again for commenting!

    Also, thanks for doing this series, Katie. I stopped baking homemade sprouted grain bread because it never had the consistency and air-iness (if that’s even a word!) that regular bread has, and I always found it to be too moist. It somewhat darkened in the middle, too, making me wonder how healthy it was to eat. As a result, we have simply cut down on bread consumption and have been purchasing *small* loaves of sprouted bread from the health food store and stretching them to make them last. :) Will be definitely interested in hearing about your journey…thanks again!

    ~Julie

    [Reply to this comment]

  • Joy

    Well, I was really excited about this series until I read that you’re using a bread machine! Not that I think they’re bad. I have not problems with them per se. How can you test recipes not made for a bread machine with a bread machine? Half of making bread is about knowing when the gluten is developed and knowing when its is done rising. That’s my two cents worth! :)

    [Reply to this comment]

    Katie Reply:

    Joy,
    I won’t always use a bread machine, but sometimes it’s nice to rely on it for slow folks like me who sometimes can’t tell all that nice stuff about gluten! I use my KitchenAid more often than not, actually. Looks like you got some good advice on how to use a breadmaker recipe by hand as well from some others readers…I’m also taking notes! Thanks for the note, though – you have a point about the gluten and the rise. I do tend to peek in the bread machine to check the rise, and the second rise is done in the pan like a traditional bread recipe b/c I don’t like how breadmakers actually bake the bread.

    I’ll make sure next week is a non-breadmaker recipe, just for you! ;)
    Katie

    [Reply to this comment]

  • Kate

    I like how much you played with it, and I’m glad you like it! I’ve never done such formal comparisons, but I did try several different bread recipes a couple years ago. And I finally landed on this one.

    http://www.modernalternativemama.com/blog/2009/11/12/dairy-free-whole-grain-bread.html

    I now use butter and raw milk, but at the time we were dairy free, as you can tell by the name. This is a SUPER forgiving bread. You can make it with butter/milk or coconut oil/milk sub, you can use all white flour, all wheat, or part of each, you can knead it too little or too much. It doesn’t matter. It comes out every time. I’ve made it for lots of people and they rave. I always knead by hand but I’m sure you could use a machine. But like I said, very forgiving.

    You’ve inspired me. I think next week I’m going to try making it with a mix of sprouted flour and unbleached white, and then maybe with sifted sprouted flour. All sprouted has been a bit too heavy and it doesn’t rise as well. I’m excited, I haven’t baked bread since we went gluten free almost 18 months ago!! Except the occasional dinner rolls anyway.

    [Reply to this comment]

  • Bethany

    A few years ago I switched to Rice Bran Extract instead of soy lecithin. Bread Beckers suggested the switch because of the dangers of soy. It uses less than the lecithin in recipes so it lasts longer too. It does make nice bread. I also noticed that I need a T. of gluten when I am making 2 loaves of Kamut bread or it takes forever to rise. We have been loving our hard white/kamut loaves!

    [Reply to this comment]

    Joyce Reply:

    you can buy non-GMO Lecithin in any health food store and it is a great dough conditioner. Since Lecithin is form of fat, I don’t know if it is “accepted” better by the body than other soy products. Buttermilk, or milk with 1 TBSP of Apple Cider Vinegar will make a much softer loaf than just using water–well worth it, if you eat dairy!

    [Reply to this comment]

    Joyce Reply:

    An additional comment; I rely on the the book “Smart Bread Machine Recipes, Healthy Whole Grain & Delicious” by Sandra Woodruff for great recipes and much great advice on dough conditioners, etc. She recommends using 1.5 tsps of wheat gluten per cup of WW Flour. When I follow this formula and use buttermilk the bread is always fabulous. Gluten acts a “structural support” for your bread after it rises and maintains the rise. If there is not enough gluten in the flour your bread will still rise beautifully, but then collapse back down into itself while baking. If you figure out the secret of not adding gluten to WW bread, please let me know! I am going to go to my local (non-chain) health food store and ask them whether or not they add gluten to their bread. Baking is truly chemistry, whereas cooking is an art–I learned that at culinary school!

    [Reply to this comment]

    Sarah W Reply:

    I don’t add any gluten to my WW bread recipe and it does not collapse back on itself.

    I use sourdoughhome.com’s 100% WW recipe, except that my starter is white flour, so there is actually some white flour in it, but I know of others who bake it truly 100% whole wheat. The only time I’ve run into problems is with cooler weather messing up the timing and rhythm of the rises (i.e. it takes so much longer so my bread wasn’t ready to bake before bedtime and/or I went out for too many hours and let the dough over rise.)

    [Reply to this comment]

  • Alexis R

    I purchase my grain from BreadBeckers and have thought of making this bread and hav3n’t because of using the bread machine…not sure how to reduce the ingredient amounts to get a good loaf but will try it now.

    My go to bread recipe is Tammy’s Recipe whole wheat bread with success. Instead of milk I have used 2 Tbs of home made kefir, and 4 tbs of honey instead of brown sugar.

    Looking forward to trying a new one. Thanks!

    [Reply to this comment]

    Alexis R Reply:

    Sorry here is Tammy’s bread link….

    http://www.tammysrecipes.com/homemade_wheat_bread

    [Reply to this comment]

    Katie Reply:

    Alexis,
    This one is already on my “to try” list – thank you for the adaptations! :) Katie

    [Reply to this comment]

  • Sarah W

    I enjoyed the first post! However, like a previous commenter, I would appreciate a translation on how to do the bread machine parts without a bread machine. I love my kitchen gadgets and always use a kitchen aid mixer to knead my dough, but I simply don’t own a bread machine, so I’m not entirely clear on what it’s doing during the “dough cycle” etc.

    The WW bread recipe I bake, I do let the dough rest for 5 minutes after the ingredients have come together before doing the actual kneading. (I understand this helps give the WW flour a little more time to absorb the moisture since it does not do so as easily as white flour.)

    [Reply to this comment]

    Kathrine W. Reply:

    Hi Sarah,
    If you’d like to do this recipe without a machine, this is what the original recipe suggests:
    Combine water, oil, and honey. Add 3 cups of flour, yeast, salt, and gluten. Mix thoroughly. Add the remaining flour and knead until smooth and elastic (about 10 min.).

    Let rise until double.

    Shape into loaves or rolls, place in greased pans, and let rise again.

    Hope this helps! Thanks!
    Kathrine W.
    Wild Flours

    [Reply to this comment]

    Katie Reply:

    Sarah,
    Looks like Lisa helped you out with the KitchenAid, but that’s a very good point. I’m putting together a “bread basics” according to the little I know, to be linked to from each of these to explain things like fat, sweeteners, kneading, machines, etc. This info will be a good addition! I was also just reading about some of this “rest time” stuff…seriously, I have so much to learn. wait till next week! :) Katie

    [Reply to this comment]

    Joyce Reply:

    Bread Makers are fabulous for making your bread dough on the “dough” only cycle. After the cycle is completed, remove the dough and proceed as you usually would. You can get a used Break Maker at a thrift store for $10 or less. Best $10 I ever spent!

    [Reply to this comment]

    Katie Reply:

    Ditto that! Everyone gets rid of their breadmakers because they think they’ll make bread and then don’t. Always look for one secondhand! :) Katie

    [Reply to this comment]

  • Shannon Wendt

    I love all the experiments!
    What kind of WW flour are you using? Forgive me if it’s mentioned somewhere and I missed it…
    Are you using fresh ground? Red or White? Hard or Soft? Spring or Winter? IMHO for baking bread the best flour is fresh milled hard white spring wheat. Hard wheat is better for breads- soft is better for pastry. White is also much less ‘wheaty’ tasting and it’s considerably lighter so you get a much better rise. And Spring wheat has slightly more protein ( so no need to add gluten) than winter wheat. I’ve used both spring and winter, depending on what was available, and haven’t noticed too much difference in the rise though. Both seem to taste the same.

    But I really think you’re putting too much thought into this ;o) I still think you can’t beat the ‘Artisan Bread in 5 Mins a Day’ 100% WW recipe! It’s SOOOO SIMPLE! Mix all the ingredients, rise, shape a loaf, rest then bake!

    And yes, it calls for 1/2 milk and 1/2 water- and that does make a BIG difference! Other recipes in their book call for all milk and eggs. I’ve used WW for some of those and have had great success!
    In fact I made Brioche dough for our cinnamon rolls on St Lucy’s day! And since they were 100% WW I didn’t feel guilty about eating 2 (…or 3)
    ~Shannon
    OrganicMamasShop.com

    [Reply to this comment]

    Katie Reply:

    Shannon,
    This one was with hard red, freshly ground. I do use some hard white (winter or spring? I’m not sure!), often half and half with hard red because I was under the impression that the white is slightly lower in gluten, therefore less rise. ??? When I tried soaking the Artisan in 5 version, I didn’t have as much luck as I wished. But I have the Healthy Bread in 5 book now, and it’s on my list to try some from there for this series! :) Katie

    [Reply to this comment]

  • Kathrine W.

    Hi Katie! Thanks for including this recipe! It’s funny because my husband and I were just talking last night about testing my recipe to remove the gluten which is the only extra we add. We don’t think too much gluten is healthy. I heard a trick recently about sifting out the bran of fresh whole wheat (I use hard white whole wheat by the way) and then adding the bran back in at the end of the mixing process…we are going to test this method this week and I pray it works because I think it would be healthier for my family as well as our customers! Thank you for the series!
    Blessings,
    Kathrine W.
    Wild Flours

    [Reply to this comment]

    Katie Reply:

    Kathrine,
    You may not even want to add (all) of the bran back in, depending on how you interpret the info in this post: http://www.kitchenstewardship.com/2010/12/16/pointcounterpoint-on-whole-grains-cause-cavities/
    Enjoy the brain buster reading over there! :) Katie

    [Reply to this comment]

  • Heather Ledeboer

    I am excited to try this recipe out, thanks for offering so much info on the different variations you tried!

    [Reply to this comment]

  • Milehimama

    The bread machine dough cycle basically mixes, kneads, and gives the dough the first rise.

    To convert to a KA, mix the dough, (dump in your wet, dump in your dry ingredients w/ half the flour), mix, gradually add more flour while using the kneading hook.

    When the dough comes together into a ball, start timing – usually a minimum of 5 minutes is needed. Then check the “gluten window” and knead more if necessary.
    http://www.wildyeastblog.com/2007/07/07/gluten/

    Keep a close eye on the KA, put your hand on the part with the motor to make sure it doesn’t overheat because that will trash it. I have a 6 qt and haven’t had a problem with this, but I have heard the 5qt. artisan series are notorious for this. If the motor feels really hot, turn it off for a minute or two to cool down.

    Let rise until doubled, then proceed with recipe.

    (At least that’s how I did it when my bread machine broke.)

    [Reply to this comment]

    Sarah W Reply:

    I also use the “window pane test” to tell whent the gluten is properly developed. I don’t think I have the experiential “feel” for that in the dough (b/c I always use a mixer), but I like it b/c it seems like a pretty objective indicator for developed gluten.
    Mike Avery also discusses it at sourdoughhome.com which is where I learned about it.

    [Reply to this comment]

    Joyce Reply:

    Sarah, what is the windowpane test? thanks, Joyce

    [Reply to this comment]

    Sarah W Reply:

    The window pane test is to take a chunk of kneaded dough and then see if you can stretch it thinly enough for light to pass through without it tearing. If you can successfully do that, then the gluten has been adequately developed. If it tears, you need to knead some more.

    [Reply to this comment]

  • Chanelle

    So, I went ahead and baked this bread. It was a big hit with my family. I like that it was so soft. Usually my problem with all wheat is that it’s too heavy, but not a concern here. I did’t use gluten and it rose fine. I have another loaf soaking to try the soaked Version since our first loaf is gone!

    [Reply to this comment]

    Katie Reply:

    Chanelle,
    Awesome news! It is so fun that people are trying these out so quickly, love that about the Internet. :) Katie

    [Reply to this comment]

    Cathy Reply:

    I made it today without the gluten as well (didn’t have any in the house, and there was awful snow). The rise was great and it stayed while baking. I also loved the softness, something I find lacking with many ww recipes. Thanks!

    [Reply to this comment]

  • Heather Ledeboer

    I have made this 3 times (without a bread machine) as posted at the bottom (non soaked version). I am having some trouble with it falling but I think my problem is that I am letting it rise in the oven (which has been slightly warmed) and have not removed it from the oven before turning it on to cook it. I have a hunch that this is my problem. Have you found this to happen (anyone)? The flavor has been a hit with our family though and I love the coconut oil.

    [Reply to this comment]

    Katie Reply:

    Heather,
    Are you using the gluten? That does make a difference, and I suspect leaving it in the oven might as well, but I’m not sure. I’m impressed that you’ve made it three times already! Glad it’s going mostly well for you so far…let us know if taking it out for the preheat makes any difference, please! :) Katie

    [Reply to this comment]

    Heather Ledeboer Reply:

    Katie, I have been using 3/4 t. of gluten. Also, I forgot to mention that they seem to be pretty sticky when I am kneading them by hand. So, in 1 of the 3 loaves I added a bit more flour (not sure how much, just kept adding as needed) so that I could kneed it longer after the first rise. That loaf rose the best.

    [Reply to this comment]

    Joyce Reply:

    Heather, absolutely take it out of the oven and don’t put it in until your oven is preheated to the correct temperature; I advise buying an oven thermometer if you don’t have one. It was drilled into my head many years ago at culinary school that baking is a science (i.e. chemistry) and that’s why the ingredient amounts are very precise, unlike with cooking where you just throw in a little or this or that to taste.

    In fact, my panasonic breadmaker recipe book lists ingredients by weight as it is much more accurate than by tsp, cup, etc. when baking bread.

    Good Luck, Joyce

    [Reply to this comment]

    Heather Ledeboer Reply:

    Thank you Joyce! I will try this again and take it out of the oven while it preheats and report back:)!

    [Reply to this comment]

  • Lenetta

    I tried it as written (no gluten) and wasn’t wowed. Even though I greased my plastic wrap well (or so I thought) and carefully peeled it off then gently – GENTLY – transferred it to the oven, it fell. I also thought the taste was only OK. But it was a fun diversion to cabin fever!

    [Reply to this comment]

    Lenetta Reply:

    Oh, and I apparently don’t grease my loaf pan well enough – I seem to always have 1/4 of my loaf stuck to the bottom and sides when I try to get it out of the pan…

    [Reply to this comment]

    Katie Reply:

    Lenetta,
    I hear you – when I used glass pans, I always had that problem. Don’t tell, but those Norpro pans I bought last year are (gasp) non-stick. :p Katie

    [Reply to this comment]

    Linda Reply:

    I have also had better luck with a stoneware pan (mine is pampered chef of course) and have had no sticking problems. unlike my glass loaf pan which I now use as a “try for my liquid extracts and the like ;0)

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  • Angie

    I am so surpised this recipe gave you flat loaves! The original recipe has never failed me – I use coconut oil, 1/4 cup honey, NO lecithan, NO gluten, and 2 tsp yeast – for the double recipe with my Kitchenaide to mix that I always make I use 12-13 cups hard red wheat because we love a somewhat denser loaf – although still very soft & yummy – rises great and never falls.

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  • Marisa

    I made the soaked version of this bread with the following adaptations:
    When I soaked it I replaced 1/2 cup of the water with homemade dairy kefir.
    1/4 cup of honey
    1/2 hard red wheat and 1/2 golden 86 wheat

    I did add the gluten and lecithin after soaking. The bread rose beautifully and was so tender and delicious. The best loaf I have ever made!

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  • Danielle

    I am also stoked to try this recipe!! Your series could not have come at a better time for our family – we just got the grain mill up and running. Thank you so much for posting these (and for all the details – much appreciated).

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  • Shauna

    OK, I feel kind of dumb. I made this recipe this morning (all by hand), using melted butter instead of oil, and all whey, which you say you do sometimes Katie. Oh, and all WW flour. I don’t know what happened, but it’s been covered for almost 3 hours, and hasn’t risen an inch! I’ll use it for fried bread with dinner, but would like to try again tomorrow. Any ideas? Was so looking forward to this, but now I’m disappointed. :( Obviously operator error, but… how do I fix this?

    [Reply to this comment]

    Katie Reply:

    Shauna,
    I’m way late at getting through comments here…and I wish I could figure out what happened. You didn’t leave out the yeast or have old yeast, did you? That seems too obvious. The only other thing I can think of is that you can overknead bread, and then it doesn’t rise. I only know this b/c I’ve done it! That’s why I always rely on my machines and my timer. Good luck!!! :) Katie

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    Shauna Reply:

    Finally got around to making this work! You’ll never guess what the problem was… old yeast AND old flour… duh! Any way, tried it tonite with new yeast and fresh ground flour and it rose beautifully! Took a while longer than I thought it should, but it did double! I’m so excited, I’m going to make another loaf tomorrow morning! Thanks, Katie!!

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  • Donna

    Is everyone here paid for promoting kitchen aid? If so please tell me how I too can get in on this

    [Reply to this comment]

    Katie Kimball @ Kitchen Stewardship Reply:

    Donna,
    I’m sure any stand mixer would work…but KitchenAid has a good monopoly on the style of machine, kind of like calling a tissue “Kleenex” or clear tape “Scotch tape.” That’s all. No, I don’t get any $ from KitchenAid. :) Katie

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Welcome!  Meet Katie.

I embrace butter. I make homemade yogurt. I eat traditional real food – plants and animals that God created, not products of plants where food scientists work. Here at Kitchen Stewardship, I share how I strive to be a good steward of my family's nutrition, the environment, and our budget, all without spending every second in the kitchen. Learn more about the mission of KS here.

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