A Good Deal on Top Fats

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Please start with part one of this series, Olive Oil Update: Can you Saute with EVOO?

Why did I come home from vacation to 63 pounds of oil on my porch? I found the best deal possible on olive oil and coconut oil and shared it with friends. A Nourishing and Frugal thing to do…

best price unrefined coconut oil extra virgin olive oil

Katie’s Oil Buying Escapades

After all my research, conflicting information, and indecision, I’m still not sure if I made the right decision or not, but I went ahead and bought a gallon of olive oil from the third pressing of the olives (one below virgin, actually), to be used for cooking. It will have less nutrients than the EVOO, but I would destroy EVOO’s delicate antioxidants, Vitamin E, and phenols anyway by cooking with it, and the other stuff is less expensive. Why pay more for something you’re going to destroy? (UPDATE:  After reading Local Nourishment‘s comments at the previous post, I’m certain I should just stick with coconut oil for cooking and EVOO for cold uses…so…anyone in my area want to purchase some olive oil for cooking? I’ve got lots! Getting tired of making bad food decisions, like the flax oil disaster. Someday I’ll get it all down and won’t have to think so hard when I buy food!)

For more on how to cook traditional foods and use traditional fats, see GNOWFGLINS Fundamentals.

Things I Love: Soaper’s Choice Oils

things-i-love-thursdayNow I get to share my new oil source company with you:  Soaper’s Choice/Columbus Foods. (Click here to see their product list of bulk oils.)  I told you yesterday that I just love finding a good company and it’s twice as nice to share them with my readers. I like them because:

  • They offer great customer service. The “Director of Special Oils” finer_things_fridayspent at least 20 minutes on the phone with me answering my questions while I watched the kiddos play outside in the water table. He has also emailed back and forth enough to earn his keep!
  • The Soaper’s Choice chemist/technical director also took the time to answer my litany of questions via email, and very thoroughly. See his thoughts below.frugal-fridays
  • Extra Virgin Organic Olive Oil is $3.30/lb for a 7-pound bottle, $23.10 total.
  • Olive Oil Refined A (what I bought, along with the EVOO) is even less, at $19.60 for 7 pounds…but I don’t think I would go with this again…
  • Extra Virgin Organic Coconut Oil is $3.90/lb for a total of $27.30 for a 7-pound bottle.
  • Refined Organic Coconut Oil (which I’ve decided to use in cooking and baking for the same reasons as the olive oil, after a discussion with Cheeseslave) is even less:  $15.47 for the 7-pound jug. That’s less per pound than I pay for grass-fed butter!
  • (See below for further info on the olive oils from Soaper’s Choice’s fact sheets.)
  • Shipping is very reasonable. I paid around $12 for 5 bottles of oil, all 7-pounders, a few months ago, and about $22 for 9 bottles this week. (They ship in 4- or 6-bottle boxes, so it’s worth it to see if one more bottle wouldn’t up your shipping too much if you’re at 5 or 9 like me!)
  • They ship FAST. Within two or three days, the boxes are on your porch. :)
  • Note:  7 pounds of either of these oils comes in at about 7/8 of a gallon. You can see the line where the oil is and the 3-quart mark circled in this picture:best coconut oil, organic and unrefined

Yes, they come in plastic.  Number 2, food grade, so I’m not that concerned. If you get the coconut oil and it’s solid when you receive it, just put the whole jug in your hot/warm dishwater at the end of the night, and it will quickly melt enough for you to pour off into glass jars. Or order in the summer and pour away!

Disclaimer:  Soaper’s Choice is not paying me anything, nor did they give me free product. (I asked! They don’t need to do stuff like that, because word of mouth gets them plenty of business. The director of oils tells me that they do broad spectrum analysis and testing of all their oils and always have a high quality product, so people keep coming back. “People buy from us because we sell REAL oil.”)

Another note:  Soaper’s Choice sells these oils for soap and lotion makers. They are food grade, though, and can be consumed by the tongue just as well as the skin! Don’t be thrown off by that part. :)

What’s Up With Coconut Oil?

I’m going to tell you all sorts of information about coconut oil and other fats in September and October as part of our “Fat-full Fall” at Kitchen Stewardship. For now, either you’re a believer or you’re not. (Here is the post on the health benefits of coconut oil and the debate.If you are trying to use more coconut oil (This is for you, Musings of a Housewife!) and aren’t sure where to start, here are some recipes you’ll enjoy:

  • Homemade Biscuits
  • Homemade Tortillas
  • Whole Grain Cornbread
  • Homemade Granola (for the oil)
  • Kimi’s pancakes (I use buttermilk, raw milk, or yogurt for the coconut milk)
  • Kelly’s Baked Oatmeal
  • Stir into your oatmeal – adds a sweetness that allows me to reduce my sugar addition
  • Fry french fries or potato chips in a skillet (I’ll have to post on these sometime – sooo yummy!)
  • Add to smoothies (make sure it’s melted and blend it in FAST or it will clump up – yuck)
  • I’ve been fairly successful in subbing coconut oil in any recipe that called for shortening (even frosting!), and for part or all of the butter in things like my granola bars and other baked goods.
  • Stable at high(ish) heat for frying/sauteeing. I’ve even fried up these turkey burgers in unrefined oil and never noticed a coconut flavor!

UPDATE: FAQs and How-to on Coconut Oil
Food for Thought Facts on Coconut Oil
How and When to Use Various Oils in Cooking/Baking

Olive Oil Statistics

The fact sheet sent to me by the company says this about the Organic Extra Virgin Olive Oil:

It comes from the first pressing of the olive fruit minus the oil of the pit by a mechanical pressing operation. The pressing process does not involve heating, solvent extraction or any other chemical process. Organic Extra
Virgin Olive Oil is grown and extracted according to specific industry organic guidelines. This product is non-GMO and is considered non-allergenic.

Compared to the Refined A olive oil, which is “extracted from virgin olive oil”, all the nutritional and compositional facts are the same, including the smoke point, (???) with the exception of the free fatty acid content.  The refined olive oil actually has 0.3% less free fatty acids than the extra virgin, possibly because of something Rick will explain in the next section. Phew. Anyone exhausted yet? (If you actually would like to see these data sheets, I’m happy to share. Just email me.)

UPDATE: I forgot to include in the original post that the EVOO is only supposed to be stored for 4-6 months in a cool place. Make sure you’re committed to using it quickly if you buy a whole gallon. If you make your own salad dressings, you go through it quickly. My first gallon was definitely gone before 6 months, but since I’m not using EVOO for cooking anymore, I split this gallon with a friend!
UPDATE 11/02/09: The more I see about EVOO and heat, the less I’m afraid of using it to saute a bit here and there. My half gallon went way too fast! This time I’m getting 2 gallons because I’m making salad dressings as Christmas gifts.

If you want to know even more about the science side of oils, virgin vs. refined, read on for the Soaper’s Choice chemist, Rick Cummisford’s, intel. But be warned:  this is not something you should bother skimming. Put your thinking caps on! I’m just going to copy our conversation verbatim, so you can help me figure out everything he says!

Me and the Chemist: Discussion about Olive and Coconut Oils

1. Me:  Regarding the olive oil refined – A: how do the nutrients remaining after refining compare to virgin olive oil? My research tells me that extra virgin has the most vitamin E, for example, but virgin has the greatest impact on heart health (and is safer to cook with because of its higher smoke point). What is the refining process – any chemicals? Would the oil be oxidized/damaged in any way? Feel free to get technical, I’d like to think of myself as an academe.

Rick:  As an oil is processed such as refining you will lose some of the natural nutrients, such as Vitamin E, which does not hold up well when heated. But other nutrients do remain, such as the natural sterols that exist in the Olive oil do remain after processing.

The refining process removes particulates and other unwanted by-products in the oils. Also during this process, the extra virgin and virgin oils are often treated with a small concentration of caustic which neutralizes the free fatty acids that occur naturally. Filtration, centrifuging and other separation techniques.

No, during the processing of the oil, other than the loss of some of the natural antioxidants, the oil quality improves, by removing the the natural undesirable by-products in the oil. During refining the Free Fatty Acids, Peroxide values, color, odor, and flavor are reduced dramatically, yielding a consistent high quality product.

2. Me:  I’d love to understand the chemistry behind what happens to damage oils under heat and pressure. Would I be correct in saying that if I’m going to saute something in olive oil, the heat I apply at home would ultimately reduce the nutrients/damage the oil just like the refining process would? (So it would make more sense to buy refined for cooking…)

Rick: Keep in mind the refining process is under a controlled environment, whereby the oil is not exposed to air and the temperatures are controlled. The refining process does not damage the oil, but the nutrient level when an oil is heated will be reduced. Sautéing is a very tough environment to apply to an oil, meaning you have high heat, in excess of 400oF, a very high concentration of air and moisture and other conditions, all of these play a role in breaking the oil and desirable components down rapidly.

3. Me:  Regarding the RBD coconut oil (organic), what is the process for taking the smell and flavor out?

Rick:   After the initial refining step, the oil will still have compounds present that can cause the oil to have dark color, and strong odor and flavor. Those two particular steps are called the Bleaching and Deodorization steps.

Bleaching step  – the refined oil is mixed with a absorbent material, such as diatomaceous earth, which is a porous solid material that has the unique properties to attract and absorb many of these compounds that cause color and even flavor and odor. Then this material is removed by filtration.

Deodorization Step – still after the bleaching step some of the compounds that cause odor and flavor issues remain. Now the oil is heated up, put under a vacuum and steam is sparged through. this steam is immediately removed taking with it many of these undesirable compounds, resulting in fresh light colored, flavorless and odorless product.

My note:  the coconut oil is organic, so it can’t have any chemicals added to it. Always a good thing.

Rick:  I think once you get down to it, any olive oil you sauté with will under similar degradation and break down, so it wouldn’t matter which you would use for sautéing. I personally like the flavor that Extra Virgin adds to our dishes.

The only difference you may see is a little less smoke from the Refined A Olive oil, but probably not a significant amount unless you’re going to deep fry with it.

My thoughts on that: Again, I’m not looking at flavor alone, but health.  So if there’s any smoke from the EVOO, I know there’s a problem with oxidation. I think. Then again, Rick is the chemist, and I’m the former-teacher-stay-at-home-mom. What do all of you foodies think?

Next up in fats: I always thought butter was very stable for sauteeing, but it turns out ghee or coconut oil is probably better! We’re always learning…learn more with me in “A Fat-Full Fall” coming in mid-September/October.

I’m happy to participate in Pennywise Platter Thursday at The Nourishing Gourmet, Things I Love Thursday at The Diaper Diaries, Frugal Fridays at Life as MOM, Fearless Friday at Home Ec 101 and Finer Things Friday at The Finer Things in Life.

And a request for you:  next week I’m posting on healthy school lunches. Any ideas or favorite tips and tricks to packing truly nourishing school lunches, preferably without (a) breaking the bank or (b) taking all day? Thanks for your help!

I am a guest lecturer and partner with GNOWFGLINS eCourses, so I will earn commission from any sales made starting here. Of course, the courses are also an awesome way to learn to cook real food, so I’d gab about them anyway.

Click here for my disclaimer and advertising disclosure - affiliate links in this post will earn commission based on sales, but it doesn't change your price.

58 Bites of Conversation So Far

  1. says

    This is great. I tried to follow it all, but I am sure I will need to read more to get it straight in my head.

    So the Coconut Oil you bought is flavorless? So you can substitute it in most dishes? I think I bought the kind that still has flavor. I was going to use it for popcorn but I’m not sure what else.

    School lunches — great topic. I was asked to post on that as well. My kids are easy and usually happy to eat PB&J and an apple. But I am going to try to keep homemade chicken noodle soup around and send that in a thermos sometimes. My kids all love that. And then there’s tuna sandwiches. Again, I’ve usually stuck to PB&J in the past but I’m going to try to change it up some this year so they don’t get bored. Can’t wait to read your suggestions!

    • Katie says

      I actually bought both flavorless (refined) and coconut-flavored (UNrefined). The unrefined has more health benefits, but if you’re going to heat it anyway, Cheeseslave and I decided you’d probably lose those benefits, so for half the cost I get the other one for baking. However, the gallon I am just finishing was all unrefined, w/ the flavor, and I used it in everything mentioned. I really didn’t notice the coconut flavor in any of the breads. It worked in everything! Katie

  2. says

    Wow!! What a great post!! I just came over from TILT. Thank you for putting all of the information in one place!! I love coconut oil and it’s great to have a resource for buying it less expensively. I recently read something about how quickly EVOO can go bad so not to buy it in bulk? Did your chemist have any thoughts on that?

    • Katie says


      Glad you found this! I was just thinking last night that I forgot to add the info about the shelf life, so I will go back and update now. Thanks for reminding me!
      Hope to see you again! Katie

  3. Jen says

    thanks for this info……. I think I am processing it all :-)
    Can you do a “bottomline” post sometime on the oils – what you use for – cooking, frying, baking, cold salads….. etc :-)

    thanks for the oil link too – will go check it out.

    what area do you live in?

  4. says

    Great info! We’ve been using coconut oil for several years now. I use extra virgin when I can and expeller pressed, which is flavorless, for things like frying tortillas for taco shells, etc. We even use the EVCO for moisturizer, etc. Looking forward to the rest of your series!

  5. Lindsay says

    Have you tried cooking with the coconut oil yet? I curious about how it turns out. Please let us know if you notice a coconut flavor :)

    I’ve been using coconut oil for a couple of years now; I usually get Tropical Traditions because they have a great product. I’m interested to know how Soapers Choice keeps their prices so low.
    Thank for the research!

    • Katie says

      Everything I mentioned in that bulleted list was with the unrefined oil, and I don’t notice the coconut flavor except in the oatmeal and smoothies. I went with refined this time for baking, though, b/c I think the health benefits of the unrefined would be diminished with the heat, anyway. Thanks for visiting!

  6. says

    I popped in from Home-Ec101.com!

    I’ve, just recently, started cooking with GrapeSeed Oil in place of EVOO, because it has a higher smoke point. I’m afraid to go into the nitty gritty of whether it has any nutritional value, when heated, though. The more I search, the more I wish I didn’t know. :)

    Thanks for all your hard work.. I’ll keep reading..

    ~Heidi – Summerville, SC

  7. says

    Great post!

    I’ve also just put a tablespoonful of coconut oil directly into my first cup of coffee in the morning to get more in my diet . . . it takes a bit of getting used to, but it works!

    I’m thinking of buying a gallon of olive oil the next time I purchase it; we use it a ton in homemade balsamic vinaigrette and mayonnaise (and I then use the mayonnaise to make caesar and ranch dressings) and seem to go through it pretty fast. We also normally drizzle a little bit on freshly grilled steaks and grilled vegetables. YUM! So, I guess we use it more often uncooked than cooked, though we still sometimes saute some veggies in it every so often . . . of course then there is always bacon grease around, which trumps olive oil in my opinion! :)

    I’ll be saving your link to bookmark! Thanks!


  8. Betsy says

    I’ve never seen coconut oil sold by the pound before. I just ordered two gallons from Mountain Rose Herbs (to save a bit on shipping). I’ll have to weigh one of the gallons so I can make a comparison. Thanks for the new source!

      • says

        Gallon weight is determined be specific gravity of the oil/ density.
        the spec they list shows specific gravity of .90 so you multiply that by 8.34 for a gallon weight of 7.506 pounds per gallon

        • Katie says

          Thank you for chiming in here! So the 7 lbs of coconut oil is awfully close to a gallon, but one can’t extrapolate that wt/gal measure to other oils because all oils are different densities. Still a great deal!
          :) Katie

  9. Susanna says

    My understanding is that the extra virgin coconut oil from Soaper’s Choice is expeller pressed (not cold pressed.) Just something to be aware of when making the choice and comparing prices.

    • says

      Hi, Just wanted to make sure info is correct, the EVOCO is Cold Pressed not expeller pressed.
      My supplier told me 116f is as hot as the oil gets.

      Hope that helps,

      Mike Lawson
      Director of Specialty Oils
      Columbus Vegetable Oils Company

  10. Linda from B.C. Canada says

    Wow, I just love your website, I found your link through Wardeh Harmon’s site. I’m just a converted beginner absorbing it all. Thank you for your time and energy in researching and sharing with us all.

  11. says

    For baking do you get the coconut oil that says 76 Degree melt point….I’m getting a little confused because I normally just buy the Extra Virgin coconut oil for baking but if I’m cooking away all the good stuff….

    • Katie says

      Yes, 76 degree RBD, for frying, sauteeing, and anytime I don’t want coconut flavor. I waffle back and forth on this issue – the inside of the baked good doesn’t get quite so hot that the health benefits of coconut oil would be diminished, perhaps. Maybe? It’s hard to find definitive evidence for this one, but at half the cost, I like to have RBD on hand. Coconut doesn’t go well with turkey chili burgers, for example!
      :) Katie

  12. Sue says

    I know this is over a year after this original post, but in case anyone reads this that can answer I am going to take a shot at asking my question. I bought a bottle of soapers choice RBD organic coconut oil and having used the unrefined before expected RBD to be odorless. It isn’t. It doesn’t smell like coconut, but it isn’t exactly odorless either. It has an odd smell-hard to describe. And it is a light cream color. Is this normal? I was expecting no odor, and white. My unrefined is whiter. Thank you ahead of time for answering. I love all the information here!!

    • Katie says

      I always see the comments, no matter how old the post! 😉

      I am always surprised that the RBD oil is yellow (when liquid) and the unrefined, clear (white when solid). Seems oxymoronic. I can’t speak to the smell, I suppose there’s always a bit of smell with a fat, but the color you’re seeing is dead on. It’s an easy sub for shortening, in my opinion, which also has a certain smell when approached at close range. 😉 Katie

  13. says

    Shew…that was a lot of info! Let me see if I got this straight- Refined coconut oil is better for baking, Unrefined is best for sauteing, drizzling, ect. And Olive oil (which I had thought was good for everything), is good when not using heat?

    So does unrefined coconut oil have the most health benefits?

    So heat is destroying all the health benefits of the oils? Does that mean that it is bad for you to saute’ veggies in olive oil? Or just not as good for you? I love the summer veggies saute with olive oil and a little salt-so yummy! It would be a sad day for me to hear that it is bad for me :(

    One more quick question. Seeing that the oil comes in the yellow jugs which means you have to heat is up to be able to pour it out, is that ok to do several times? I keep all my oils in a cold dark place.

    • Katie says

      Let me answer in bullet points:
      1. Unrefined coconut oil has the most health benefits over refined, for sure, but I don’t know if I can compare with olive oil, if you are looking for an overall winner. They’re different kinds of fats, both good.
      2. I bake with any of the oils you mentioned, although if you don’t want the flavor of coconut, I’m pretty sure refined coconut oil is the best choice since you’re probably losing some of the goodness of unrefined coconut oil by heating it.
      3. Either coconut oil is safe for sauteing – depends if you want the taste or not – but EVOO should not be used at very high heats. I still use it a lot for sauteeing, but I keep the heat below halfway. I just like being able to pour it all the time!
      4. Heat always damages certain nutrients, like Vitamin E in olive oil for example. However, it’s not going to be harmful to you until the oil reaches its smoke point, which is over 300F for EVOO but much higher for coconut oil. Does that make sense? Heated EVOO not as good for you as cold in a salad, but yet not going to HURT you.
      5. I do like to try to pour out all the coconut oil at once, just so I don’t have to reheat and reheat, but that’s just because I’m lazy. I stick the jug in dishwater, so it’s not so hot that it should affect the plastic. I like to store the oil long-term in glass jars so that I can put them on the stovetop to melt the coconut oil as I cook.

      Great questions! I hope others get down to this comment for all the clarification. :) Katie

      • says

        I think this response may have just answered my biggest question! I’ve been wondering if EVOO was harmful when heated. What I get from this is that it’s just not as good. I can live with that. Thanks!

  14. colleen says

    Just ordered my first supply of oils from SoapersOil. I ordered 2 bottles of refined coconut oil, a bottle of tallow and a bottle of EVOO. I am loving the nutritional lifestyle!

  15. danimal says

    I’ve gone to the soaper’s choice website recently
    and I noticed this post is incomplete. Maybe different products are available now than before but I thought you’d like to know that there’s 3 refined options:
    Coconut Oil, 76 Degree, White ($1.61per pound)
    Coconut Oil, 92 Degree, White ($1.63per pound)
    Coconut Oil,Refined – QAI Certified Organic ($2.19 per pound)

    Do you know the differences between these? Which is the one that was mentioned in your original post?

    • Katie says

      I’m not really sure about the 76 degree vs. 92 degree coconut oil, to be honest – but notice that all the prices you list are for 50-ld tubs! I get the refined organic coconut oil for about $18 for 7 lbs (that just went up from $15, sad), and the extra virgin organic coconut oil for $3.90/lb. Extra virgin means not heated above certain points,and it smells and tastes like coconuts. The healthiest. Refined is still pretty doggone healthy, but use it when you don’t want the coconut flavor. Hope that helps! :) Katie

  16. Kristie says

    Have you done any research on tallow? I was thinking of buying it from soaper’s choice, but didn’t know if that was a really healthy thing to cook with. I am working on gut health, and am trying to figure out animal fats-where to get them, how to store them etc. Thank you. I love your blog and am shocked how much you can type with children around. :)

    • Katie says

      tallow is definitely a healthy fat and awesome for french fries :) but a good source is imperative. If I wasn’t buying it from a farmer directly, I would call the source to ask about what the animals eat and how they are treated. Mike at Columbus Foods (Soaper’s Choice) is really helpful.

      And I type mostly while the kids are sleeping…sometimes while they’re playing quietly (or loudly!). 😉 Katie

    • heidi says

      i did get ahold of
      mike at soapers choice. he emailed me some detailed info on the tallow and lard- most of which is over my head! i did notice that it contains trans fat…….so i’m thinking maybe this isn’t the source i want. such a good price on it, but doesn’t that mean it is hydrogenated?

  17. Natalia says

    I want to order some coconut oil to use as a lotion. Do you think it would be best to go with EVCO or will refined oil work well?

    • says

      It depends whether the coconut odor will compete with the essential oil or fragrance oil your going to use, if you use one at all.
      When you say lotion are you using it neat or as part of a formulation.
      I would suggest Shea butter over coconut for this application if your using it neat, and definitly go unrefined shea.
      Macadamia nut oil is also incredible for the skin, it is a natural source of palmitoleic acid which is also found in whale, dolphin, and finally in human sebum. It absorbs right into skin, with minnamul rubbing , know as a vanishing oil.

      • Natalia says

        I should’ve used the word “moisturizer” not “lotion” as I plan to use pure coconut oil without adding anything to it.
        I am not familiar with using pure oils as moisturizer, so I thought I’d order coconut oil from soaper’s choice. Since it is in bulk, at least I can cook with it too. Not sure what to do with 7lb of macadamia nuts oil.

  18. colleen says

    I am so confused. I want to order Coconut Oil from Soaper’s Choice, but there are so many types to choose from 76 degrees, 92 degrees, fractionated, not fractioned. I feel like the commerical CALGON TAKE ME AWAY! I want to purchase the oil with the wonderful smell of the coconut and without. Which one is the best? All will be for cooking.

    • Katie Kimball @ Kitchen Stewardship says

      The oil with the smell is the organic virgin oil, runs about $4ish a pound right now but going up all the time. The one for cooking without the smell is the RBD oil, about $18-20 for the 7 lb jug. Now “come on back” and enjoy! :) Katie

  19. PK says

    Do you REALLY find grass-fed butter for less than $4/lb?! If so… WHERE?! (probably only available near you in Michigan!!) sigh….

    • Katie Kimball @ Kitchen Stewardship says

      Not even sure it’s entirely grassfed, to be honest, and not organic – but local, antibiotic/hormone free, and available at our (former) milk farm. I need to get a Cosco membership and stock up on Kerrygold butter this spring, really…
      :) Katie

  20. says

    I have an 8 gallon bucket of coconut oil in my Amazon shopping cart as we speak…for $62. Sometimes my surfing addiction pays off. Thank you so much for this post! I’m going to buy some oil this week.

  21. Heidi says

    Just wondering- is this still your choice for coconut oil? I used it a few times, but I’m just not sure it is as good of a quality as TT. I have used both brands, and I do think the TT coconut oil is nicer. What do you think? Thanks!

    • Kara says

      I just came on here to ask the exact same question. I have been using these oils for a year now and I love the price but everyone seems to always speak so highly of TT that I am just wondering if you still believe the quality to be as good! Thanks for all the time and energy you put into your blog, it is so greatly appreciated!!

      • says

        I still use them! Unless they’ve changed anything, and the flavor hasn’t changed, I still stand by the conversation I had with Mike over there that the processing is done well, so I’m not going to split hairs. Tropical Traditions does a LOT of marketing, so “everyone” has a bit of a nudge most likely. I think they’re both very good products, and TT may have more connections to the source in the Philipines, but I don’t know that they’re better at all costs.

        Hope that helps! :) Katie

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